Excuse my rant, ladies and gentlemen, but I have reached the boiling point with this whole ILLEGEAL immigration ordeal.

If you haven't noticed, Vicente Fox (Mexican "President") was in the US today pretty much ranting and dogging on the US for sending the National Guard to the US-Mexican border to aid the over-stressed border patrol, and for wanting to build a wall. Now, my question is this…

What gives this Vicente Fox chap the right to come to the US and run his stupid, commie mouth about US immigration laws? How dare this man, with his porn-like mustache, speak against American immigration laws that are only meant to secure our country and put a stop to the inhumane smuggling of people! What a douche…doesn’t have the huevos to speak against his own corrupt government (where the entire problem lies) but has the sass and the nerve to come and demoralize our country even further!

Please do not interpret my frustrations as “racism.” I am a proud Latino (Spanish-Salvadorian) born and raised in the US. I am proud of my Hispanic heritage and I’m truly blessed and proud to have been born in the US. I truly feel for these poor people who are only seeking the best for their families, I really do. But I think the problem is in their own governments, and someone (*eh hem* The UN) should be doing something to put a stop to these corrupt government that are ignoring their citizens. No one seems to want to fix these horrible governments and so what do they do? Blame the US (or Bush for that matter) for all their problems. I’m tired of it! And for this man (Vicente Fox) to come to the US to tell us that “we’re wrong for what we’re doing” is ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGES!

Just my 2 cents. Your views???

-Daniel

Well.. I agree and disagree. For one Mexico is not a Communist country. Two.. OUR president is no better. Now, on the other hand I am proud to be an American no matter what jerkoff is in office wheather it be a Republican or a Democrat. I feel that ALL the people who aren't in this country legally shout get the !@$ out. Also, if some one live here and can't speak english.. GET OUT! I realize that this country was founded by people from all over and all of them couldn't speak english. BUT. They loved this country and they were willing to defend it whatever the cost. However, it isn't that way anymore. Also, it is pretty sad some person from some place I can't even pronounce can come to this country, live on a Visa, and get a college education. There are people here in this country who can't even get a college education. Or, we are giving tons of food to starving people in a far away land, and yet there are people starving on the streets in our own cities.

Hmm. From the way you express yourself, I wonder if the immigrants stole your education too. 1. I know Mexico is not a communist country. The reason I even typed the word “comie” was to exaggerate a point, and link a few leaders of all these pro-immigrant protest to a communist group known as The Labor Party, who pretty much “sponsored” (if you can call it that) some of these protest. 2. Name the “founders of this country who didn’t speak English.” 3. What people aren’t willing to defend this country? I dare say I have one of the most patriotic Hispanic families around. My aunt, who is a CW-4 in the US Army, is currently serving her THIRD Iraqi tour. My uncle, Lt. Colonel Robles, is in the US Special Forces…last time we heard from him he was in Sudan. Do you know that I even have family members who are defending this country who DON’T EVEN LIVE HERE? I have two other uncles in the Salvadorian Special Forces who have served TWO tours in Iraq. Who are they fighting for? The United States. Where do they live? El Salvador. Do they have any interest in moving here? NONE! 4. Please tell me why “there are people in this country who can’t get a college education.” This country is one of the best places to get an education, if someone doesn’t get a college education it’s because they choose not to. There’s ALWAYS a way to be educated, just as long as you seek it. 5. Why is it “sad” that we have international students (or as you called it those who “live on Visa”) studying here? I think it’s a great thing actually. They have to pay almost twice as much as an “in-state” student. Why is that good? The schools make more money. And no they can't get any type of federal help. You have to be a US citizen to receive ANY kind of financial help. Not only that, but we get to “share our knowledge with the world.” It’s kind of sad that in a way you’ve turned this thread into anti people who don’t speak English… lol. This thread was meant to be more of an “anti crappy governments AKA the governments responsible for this mess.”

-Daniel

EXACTLY DANG STRAIGHT to a certain extent. Only dont talk about My Man Bush! But also wernt the people who came over speaking english? if they didnt i wonder why our countries first language is English.

Now heres what i have to say. Nothing pisses me off more then having the Banner translated in spanish and our pledge at school being spoken in spanish. Another thing that gets on my nerves is when ever i walk into a store say Lowes,Best Buy,Home Depot and Walmart i see spanish everywhere! We are practically letting illegal immigrants get around in OUR OWN COUNTRY!! To be honest i would do a whole lot more then just a wall if we could afford it i say put claymore mines or something maybe dig a river before the wall and after the wall VERY DEEP! I may have unreal expectations but i'm tired of them coming over here and messing with our heritage weve come to far. Do you see us going down to Mexico and not speaking any spanish and translating their stuff to English? Why should they have the right and nerve to come over here and do it! IT NEEDS TO BE STOPPED! They are gonna start a war within the country if it keeps going on like this. None of my views are directed at Hispanics just illegal immigrants.

J Man

land mines? r u serious man? you want to kill people who are trying to flee their poor country in the hopes of being able to some day have decent life conditions? well thats wonderful, but heres this:
try taking away all the illegal immigrants and see wat that does to the economy (which btw is doing great right now.... NOT)
i agree we have too many illegal immigrants but making a wall wont help... make mexico a decent place to live in... that might help. if u put a wall, they'll try getting in by the sea, the airs and over and under the wall. they can do it.
cheers

niko

A wall huh? Where have I heard this concept before? You know, that German city tore in half by a wall in 1961? That turned out well, didn't it?

But seriously, building a wall is a bit too much. I mean, think about it. How much would it cost to build a wall all the way across the American-Mexican boarder? Don't you think we could spend those tax dollars on something a little more beneficial to our country? How about a program that would help people become legal citizens so they wouldn't be forced to stay out or illegally come over? Maybe spend that money creating more jobs to make up for the ones that everyone claims immigrants take away? Or like Niko said, help improve the quality of life in Mexico. A wall won't stop them. If they want to enough, they can get over. Building a wall would just waste money.

I'm sorry, but did you research anything before you made this post? The US was founded from British colonies, you know, England, that english speaking country? "They loved this country and they were willing to defend it whatever the cost." Umm, no they weren't. It took many years for the US to gain independence, and a majority of it was because people weren't willing to fight a war for it. The US avoided any war they could up until WWI. "Two.. OUR president is no better. Now, on the other hand I am proud to be an American no matter what jerkoff is in office wheather it be a Republican or a Democrat." One thing I can't stand is people insulting our president. He's our president till 08, deal with it. If there is one thing history has taught us, "United we stand, divided we fall." Support your leader. I don't see how one can call themselves American if they bring down their own government. It's not like I thought Clinton was a great president, but you never saw me constantly insulting him.
Quick history lesson: The US was especially known for it's great level of diversity after the Revolutionary War (even so before).


I think the sad part about this whole thing is that non Americans have an open minded view on this whole matter. Americans are blinded by their own feeling of superiority to see matters from another country's level.

From Daniel2986...


From AName...



From me...
Skywest08 spouted...


Really? Dying of starvation in the US? And the story hasn't been reported on the news? Amazing.
Actually, people in the US are NOT starving to death except in very rare, diverse circumstances. There is not, and never has been a severe shortage of food in the US, and never in history has there been a time when US citizens died of starvation in any regular fashion. Sure, once in a great while you'll hear of someone who had been neglected by family or care givers dying from lack of food, but, anyone in the US knows where they can go to get food if they need it.

Skywest08,
How many need to tell you that your posts have no validity before you learn that your posts have no validity?
Try doing some real study on real events in some reputable references before posting things as fact. Otherwise, it is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Who were the illegal immigrants 500 years ago ? The original people at that time had need to stop it.And what about the " legal " slaves immigrating ?
Illegal immigrants in YOUR OWN COUNTRY ? It have to be a joke .

I for one am glad the Army is now on the border, and a wall does need to be built. These people are flooding our country and taking away jobs. And, the simple fact is that wherever they wind up residing the property values of that area go right down the toilet. There's a 7-11 (for those of you that don't know, it's a convenience store) about 10 minutes away from me and every weekday these illegals congregate there litterally by the hundreds, waiting for someone to pull over and give them a day job. It's horrendous, this 7-11 actually had to put up a fence for them to stay behind and hire security guards for outside. It looks trashy, and I'm always waiting for someone to "accidently" swerve. The only good thing is that they tend to take jobs that most Americans don't want, like lawn mowing and slaving away in a restaurant. However, by the second or third generation these people's offspring have made it into college, and start taking away other jobs. I recognize that they come here to start a better life, which is great. Just do it the legal way or I say tell the Army to shoot on site.

Good point. In a way, our country was founded on this, as we occupied Native territory. A majority of our early economy was based on cheap labor from immigrants. I don't think our country would be as far or as strong as it is now without that throughout the 19th and 20th century.

Good post Jump, I agree that sending the Guard down there is a good idea, but I think hostile actions should be a last resort. I wonder what the rules of engagement (if any) will be for them?

lets try to keep the flamage to a minimum, this is a hot topic, but if you guys like i can see if we can have a topic that allows full flamage. dont think it might happen though i dont wanna lock this one.

The only person that's be "flamed" deserved it. He made dumb comments that he cannot backup with any facts, and almost all the people that posted on this thread called him on it.

Well I know Mexico has some of it's army down on the border to "protect" from the drug lords, but we all know some are actually helping the drug lords. The rules of engagement are defined as (under any circumstance?) "Directives issued by competent military authority which delineate the circumstances and limitations under which United States forces will initiate and/or continue combat engagement with other forces encountered." I think if we had two armies at the border, and one side for some odd reason decided to shoot at the other, it could be called an "act of war." That's the only thing that worries me about having two armies on the border.

-Daniel

My point being about landmines may not actually put them on there just threaten them or something it has to stop. The reason it angers me so much is that i'm pretty much the only one who speaks real english. It is ridiculous i'm saying come over legally not illegally. Galaxy how would you like it if come to Belgium illegally and get everything translated become a bum and live off of youre income? Or how about my language being everywhere because i chose to not to respect what yall have going there or not caring to learn anything to get around and just expect everyone to help me thats all i'm saying. I was raised to where you learn things to get around you gotta get youre way around otherwise you wont be going anywhere period.

Not meaning to start the flame
J Man

I think you'll find us "Englanders" are the one's that speak the real english, considering we are 'English'

Anyway... to be fair somone said before that they're taking all the crappy jobs your fellow countrymen don't want to do. Fair enough, but come on if they weren't there who'd be doing the jobs? If none of your fellow countrymen want to do it I'd rather have illegal or legal (depending) doing them than nobody! It's the same here in the UK - our economy is being held up by "immigrants" who actually want to come to our country for a better life, just get on with it, and work! Fair enough - we'd be nowhere without them - because nobody would do the jobs people get paid pittence for. Same goes for your economy. We have had the fiasco of the Home Office announcing that they "don't actually know how many illegal immigrants are in Britain".... give me a break - jeesh that's one hell of a fiasco! Anyway - yep without the "immigrants" doing the jobs we don't want to do we'd be nowhere - oh and some of them come here pretty well qualified too They're actually quite useful.

Dan.

Thanks, but I was wondering how they deal with immigrants that they encounter, not the other army. But you do bring up a good point, this could turn into a Cuba-Guantanamo Bay situation with two armys on each side.

i dont think we should deport them i just think we should #1 stop more from coming #2 make them pay into all the crap that we have to and #3 stop giving away everything like medical care and such. those things would eliminate the issues because let me tell you this, they are NOT taking jobs that you would be doing, they are taking jobs like picking cherries and cotton, working on hot 140 degree roofs for almost nothing and lots of other things you wouldnt dare do. Now if they stopped doing that the ecomony takes a huge dive. One thing that might help if you do support deporting them is to make the people on welfare and the bums of this country do the jobs the illegals do, but thats never going to happen, people want so much free and dont care for anything else, they dont care about this country so they dont care to contribute back into it, they just wanna take and not give, so if we make them give and give they may not want to come anymore(minimum wage plus getting taxes taken out plus no free medical = barley better off than they were in mexico).

I live in the heart of all of this here in Northern California (Wine Country). I drive by them every morning on my way to work and they work in the vineyard fields next to me. I work with them at work and I have made friends with some of them (that speak English that is). As long as they can find work here they will come illegially...period. I am against illegals in this country and the businesses that seek them only encourage more infiltration. This situation is not good. Not only for our sake but also for their sake because they are being exploited by being paid low wages.

The part that angers me most is that they are screaming legal immigration while they wave a mexican flag in our streets! If they want to be part of America why not carry OUR flag and support OUR country?

Why must I call a business and push #1 for English? What? Am I an American citizen and the native language I was taught was English NOT Spanish. They must come here, get legal and speak our language like all the other immigrants before us had too. We are a land of immigrants but it should not be prostituted like it is now.

I have many Spanish friends, in fact I grew up with a hard working (Legal) mexican family. They were home owners and had a large family. I went to school with the girls and one brother. The girls taught me how to cook lots of tortillas and knit. I would go and pick fruit with them and the father would actually pay me money at the end of the day! I will never forget him giving me $16 in cash. Back in my day it was a lot of money to me (much better than cashing in coke bottles) I was floored. I knew they did not have much, but I had a lot of respect for that family and those like them that worked hard to become legal citizens.

This is a hot subject but an important one.

Very well said! Those are alot of points you expressed for me. And i understand alot of it. I to have alot of hispanic friends always shown me respect and kindness. But when Illegals come over and mave the Mexican flag wtf? As much as i hate it nothing upsets me more then seeing spanish everywhere when that shows were catering to them!

Jordan

From reading this thread it makes me feel a little better about were I live, New Zealand. about 3000kms ( about 2000 miles) to the nearest other country. But as for the problem in the States with Mexico, I support what the states is doing. Every Country has the right to protect its boarders.

Except for the War of 1812, Mexican/American War, The American Civil War, the Spanish American War, and a bunch of police actions...Invasion of Tripoli...etc.

Absolutely, because East Enders are so intelligible. And the Welsh...my god...they practically wrote the dictionary. Having a mother from Nairn, I fully understand the concept of the "British English"...however, having a grandfather from Nairn, I wonder if he ever learned English.

Seriously, if Mexicans want to become Americans, they must adapt to her ways. That includes learning English. Otherwise, they will, by virtue of the climate within the US, be relegated to the status of second class citizens and never enjoy the benefits of the country that they are now a part of.

I agree...if Mexicans want to actually be Americans, then they must adapt to those ways. That includes taking the American flag as their own. Their ties to Mexico can remain...they do not need to be brainwashed. But their loyalty, their hearts, and their minds must become Ameican.

To Americans, the US flag is always held in higher regard than any other. It is the symbol that, on this memorial day, is remembered as being what so many men and women gave all they had for. It is the greatest symbol for the idea that is America. It must come first in the hearts of her people.

I said any war they could. It was called isolationism and ended in 1917.

Yah...any they could...except for those. I mean, y'know...Havana harbor, "Remember the Maine!" and all that aside...oh, and the annexation of Texas...the Mexicans didn't like that much...not that it mattered...and the Barbury Pirates...plus that Civil war...thing...n'stuff...

I'm just messing with you now...aren't I? Sorry...

We were part of those wars because we pretty much had to be, war (or any type of involvement) was a last resort back then. After we ended isolationism, we were jumping into wars like they were going out of style.

Well, since WWII, we've had four wars. But only two have been declared...so the others (Korea, Vietnam) would be more correctly called "Police Actions". Grenada was a "rescue", Panama was a "raid", and bombing Libya, Iraq, and shelling Lebenon were all "Deterrant Actions".

The Cold War ended in 1991 with the total collapse of the Soviet Union, and the emergence of the Balkan violence (Bosnia Herzegovina, Croatia, Albania, Serbia, Macedonia) apparently due to a combination of rampant nationalism and because christians and muslims just can't get along, even if they're all Europeans...not that the Europeans can ever get along...as evidenced by the aforementioned Balkan violence.

Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Kosovo, and Macedonia were all humanitarian missions, not including the bombing of Serbia because they were committing genocide (ethnic cleansing) against the Kosovar Albanians. (Of course we didn't try to stop the ethnic cleansing between the Hutus and Tutsis in Africa...for whatever reason, the UN and NATO don't seem to mind Africa tearing itself apart, but call for an attack on Belgrade in a hot second) We're still in Bosnia, by the way...10 years later, as well as in Kosovo.

The Iraqi No-Fly zones were because of post DS/DS One. We overthrew the Taliban in Afghanistan, and invaded Iraq...beat Hussein's "elite" republican guard in about 17 minutes and toppled the government. And now we're "Nation Building" and fighting "Global Terror".

Yep...just 2 wars since WWII. Hard to believe it's been so peaceful.

Are you trying to tell me that the US never had a policy of isolationism? Hmm, apparently my history professor has no clue what he's talking about...

Okay, talking about wars (or major conflicts) that the US has been involved in:

Prior to WWII, we have been in The Revolutionary War, War of 1812, Mexican War, Civil War, Spanish War and WWI. Keep in mind this was in over a period of 165 years. That averages out to about a war ever 27 years.

After we entered WWII to present, a time period of 65 years, we have been in WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War, The Persian Gulf War and the Iraq War. This averages to a war every 13 years. 1:13 (ratio of wars/major conflicts to years after WWII) is more then double the amount of 1:27 (ratio of wars/major conflicts to years before WWII). You know, unless my math professors have no clue what they are doing either

[quote name='27driver' date='May 30 2006, 02:46 AM' post='86651']
Well, since WWII, we've had four wars. But only two have been declared...so the others (Korea, Vietnam) would be more correctly called "Police Actions". Grenada was a "rescue", Panama was a "raid", and bombing Libya, Iraq, and shelling Lebenon were all "Deterrant Actions".


I thougt nam was a "Conflict"?

Huh? Whah...? Dude...seriously. I mean, I don't even know your history prof. And isolationisn was what the US practiced before WWI...and before WWII as well, hence the lend-lease, the sending of ship to Britain, and the robbing of the Pacific Fleet for the Atlantic fleet and Britain.

What constitutes a "Major Conflict" anyway. I always figured that getting shot at was pretty major, no matter where it happened. I mean, was Kosovo a major conflict? I got shot at in Kosovo...therefore, I consider it pretty freaking major. And what gives with the mathematical calculations of the frequency of conflict? Is that what they're teaching in math classes nowadays? Isn't there some need for calculus or trig as opposed to "what is the median of years between 'major conflicts'?"

H*ll, man...they're all conflicts. My Dad was there and he doesn't even know what to call it. Apperently, history profs don't believe that Kosovo was a "major conflict" even though we brought American servicemen home in boxes. SO...I don't know. This thread is about the Mexican President, anyway. If ya'll want to talk about conficts, wars, or the time between them, let's get another thread.

Umm, how is finding the amount of conflicts in one period of time vs. another not of any importance? If you remember correctly, this whole argument was about the statement I made of the US not being as willing to fight wars before WWI as they are now. This shows that US involvment is more frequent after WWI and that my statement was, in fact, legit. All you did was throw other facts into this that have nothing to do with the point being argued, and I was sucked into it. I must admit, you're good. You should be a lawyer.

Yeah my dad was in nam too. I know what the word "conflict" means...I was simply saying that the US govt calls it a "conflict" vs a war. Any idea why? It saves million and likely billions...on paying the soldiers that were there, what they deserve. But, since it was a conflict and not a war...they dont get the benefits that are due to them. I dont really feel like starting another thread about wars...I just wanted to put my .02 cents in.

Just curious...who do you fly for 27Driver?

I fly for a 121 cargo operator...we're actually being conglomerated with another cargo company(ies) in order to operate contracts overseas. I'll not say the name (as it's presently frowned upon by management, and I'm not lookin' to get fired), but it's not Fed Ex or UPS...even though we do handle a lot of UPS and FE hazardous cargo in the states and Mexico.

Yeah...see...that was kinda the point, there high-speed. Along with being a student of foreign wars and history, I'm also a perrenial smarta**...and my first post was mostly about Mexicans assimilating to American culture. It's just that at the beginning of it, I poked at the "The US avoided any war they could up until WWI" comment...and you took the bait like a prize trout. Sorry for reeling you so long.

WHAT?!? That's crap...those guys fought long and hard in a war that people are still emotional about to this day. They deserve and should recieve any and all benefits of service that they have earned through their involvement there. If your dad or other Vietnam Vet is having trouble, he could contact the VFW, the American Legion, or the VA to get information and/or help in getting those benefits. It's what the vets in my family did and they received all their due.

Preach it to the choir brother...im wearing a MIA braclet on my right wrist as we speak. (or type)