Im sure there is no correct answer but here goes. from an industry stand point which is the best airline acadamy? right now i have my private rating and am currently working on my instrument. after that I am thinking about ATP, comair, or Regional Airline Acadamy. which is the best route???

LOL that's funny I have all three of those schools pamphlets in my room. I think the one with the Best offer is ATP but here is the rundown.

ATP
Course:Airline Career Pilot Program(ACPP)&Direct Track Placement
Will take you from Private Pilot to Certified Flight Instructor with approximately 190 hours of multi-engine time.You have two choices 90 day fast Track or 10 months(free housing).Direct Track is the new airline placement option following the Airline Career Pilot Program. Direct Track provides the fastest way to go from Airline Career Pilot Program graduate to Airline Pilot without flight instructing.Your success in receiving a Regional Airline First Officer job offer is backed by ATP’s exclusive $10,000 rebate guarantee and a guaranteed multi-engine instructor position with ATP.
Aircraft:65 PA-44 seminoles,2 diamond stars(13 on order),16 C-172, Cessna 525 and 501 jets
Price: ACPP=$39,995 DTP=$32,995 Total=$77,985

Comair Academy<--My Favorite
Course:I have recently been getting flyers in the mail from these guys with pics of 777's and 767's that say" We have all the connections" and "Being a subsidiary of Delta, we are now the ONLY accelerated flight training facility serving the entire Delta Connection System." They probably do but I want to see how manypeople were hired by Comair or one of the others. A student taking the traditional program graduates witha minimum of 1000hrs TT, there is the advanced program -10 plus 4 that does the same thing as traditional but gets you out quicker.You can work as a flight instructor and enjoy the benefits of a paid employee of Delta-with free 1st class flights to anywhere Delta flies(An offer I wouldn't mind taking up). And when your finished the hiring airlinepays $20,000 dollars for your First officer training.
Aircraft:More than 110 in total, Piper PA-44,some multi engine ones, and some nice new ones
Price: $53,000 (+or-)

Regoinal Airline Academy
Course:My first impression was how could all of their graduates have an airline job and they only have about 6 planes at each campus.But then I found out that you have your choice of three different regional aircraft ratings included in your training. To tell you the truth I think they have a good offer but I wouldn't apply unless any of my first choicesdidn't work out. But if RAA is "your school", then nevertheless apply apply apply! Just so you know----"Regional Airline Academy has alliances with regional airlines that guarantee interviews for graduates. We offer college degrees and financial aid along with Flight Attendant Training."
Aircraft:22 total aircraft including PA28s, PA28Rs, PA32s and C152s
Price:$45,000(+or-)

There really isn't a 'best' academy to get to an airline.

Unless you are trying to use that route to get that promised interview with their affiliated regional, it does not matter where you did your training. Your licenses & certificates don't come with a brand name on them. It doesn't matter to a recruiter where you got them. The big marketing ploy of the acadamies is their interview hook up. 'Spend a gazillion dollars here and land an airline job in 18 months!' All you get for your $50-60K or more is an guaranteed interview- not a guaranteed job. So you can get an interview at reduced flight times by spending your money there, but if you don't get a job offer you are screwed as you are out the money and aren't qualified to apply any place else as your TT is so low.

Comair is now the Delta Connection Academy. You should expect a bunch of great, glossy flyers from schools like that and the RAA as they need students! They need slick marketing to keep a steady source of income for their high priced school. This forum is great, but it's not the place to get the real 411 on acadamy programs. You need to visit the message boards at http://forums.jetcareers.com or http://forum.flightinfo.com. (Jetcareers has folders for each of these schools by name.) Do a name search and you will find days of reading between these two sites.

DCA claims they place 97% of those that "complete their program". That is not 97% of those who enroll. Read this post about DCA that took a hit at their claim:

"“Even in today’s job market, 97% of our graduates are hired as First Officers!*”

The asterisk * small print at the bottom of [DCAs] ads reads: “* 728 out of 754 students who completed the entire program through August 2003”. Wow, that is fantastic, don’t you know? DCA has been in business since 1987, which is 16 years. If you divide 728 by that 16 years you only get 45.5 students per year, or 3 students per month on average, that graduate. This means less than 6% of their students make it as First Officers. Do you really want to spend all that money to attend DCA, knowing that only 6% or less of the attending students are hired as First Officers?"

-taken from this thread Thoughts on DCA

My Experience at DCA

And while you are looking, don't forget investigating the Mesa Pilot Development Program. My friend just went through their PACE program (having entered it with 350TT, and the Commercial, Multi, Instrument done at a local flight school for less), got an interview and was put in an RJ ground school this week.

I'm curious, do you plan on getting a college degree?

Your friend went through the PACE program and has a job?
I went on the site and it says you need an associate's degree to enroll.

Yes. She had a 4 year degree at age 21 and went on to be a flight attendant after college. This is a career change at age 26. She did all her ratings at the local airport while on furlough for a reasonable cost. The PACE program puts students through CRJ ground school and a bit of Baron training. Successful grads get offered an interview. Luckily, she did well in both otherwise she'd be out the money and not qualified for an (airline) job elsewhere with 350TT. Hopefully she will also pass her ground school and sim training. I can't imagine doing what she is at such low TT. Even at 1,000TT is was a challenge for me! She also did a Flight Safety ab-initio type program previously and got two job interviews, but no job offers. (Like I said, acadamies only guarantee an interview not a job.)

Oh, Okay and when I asked about your friend I meant to ask a question -not meaning I didn't believe you.

But for DCA>Delta Connection
I am looking at their brochure here and it says the following:
"Delta connection carriers(Chattequa,ASA,...)) will hire over 1200 pilots this year alone."

" Be a paid Flight instructor, Enjoy complimentary air travel for you and your family around the world. Anytime, Anywhere.Acceptance as an instructor is based on individual abilities and perfromance. As a result acceptance cannot be guaranteed.However to date 85% of our students who apply have been accepted.(133/155 from Jan 04 to OCT 04)"

They make it sound easy but I'm not sure maybe Hawker could provide some insight on this.And as for ATP which is really looking good right now--With airline placement at Continental Express do you actually get a chance at Continental Airlines after a couple of years flying the regionals?

I'm not sure if the question was directed to me, but yes I already have a bachelor of science. This is finally the career I need to be in, but getting married and kids can change ones life plans drastically

Go to ATP thats www.allATPs.com right? Go there then. Tell `em Fast Jet sent you.

Like a couple said before, there isn't a (best) school but there are many schools that are really good.

If Airbuses were meant to fly, there wouldn't be a Boeing.

The correct answer, is....

Which ever academy gives you the most (including interviews) for the cheapest! (A bridge program is not an interview...its a fake job! They don;t have to hire you!)

You should look into Pan Am and Westwind academy at Deer Valley airport in Phoenix. Also, if you haven't gotten a degree yet look into University's such as ASU, Kent State, SJSU, and Tennessee. If you can afford Embry Riddle in Prescott, AZ thats another good bet.

Here's what I've figured out from reading this site that my friend who is a UPS 767/757 pilot told me about:
http://www.jetcareers.com/forums/ubbthreads.php
(go halfway down the page to find the forum: Flight Training: Those that support Jetcareers! )

ATP seems to me to be the best. Lots of multi time and because they do 90% of all their training in seminoles so when you are hired as a CFI you will be logging tons of multi time. As far as I know you won't get so much multi time anywhere else. Airlines hire you based on your multi time!

You must have 2 years of college or work experience, your PPL, 85 hours TT and 25 hours PIC Cross Country.

$40,000, 90 days, and an apartment that's paid for.

Apparently PanAm is $80,000 and Flight Safety is also just about that much once you factor in the cost of renting an apartment.

My friend who posts on that site as DE727 thinks that PanAm lies in their ads by saying that you are guaranteed hire somewhere and that the airline industry is doing just GREAT!

They also talk about a school called Ari-Ben there, but it sounds like their airplanes are always broken and the seats in them are painful!

Coincindentally, I am calling tomorrow to schedule my phone interview with ATP!

I am 10 hours short of PIC Cross Country time... I could do it in a 172 at ATP for $100/hr with an instructor riding along or do it up here at the flight school that I just got my PPL at in a '98 172 for $120/hr without an instructor riding along.

If you can go to ATP stop your Instrument training because I've read that you cannot get a credit for instrument training you have already done.
If you do the ATP Career Pilot Program the cost does not change no matter what... so it makes sense to start you IR there, or you are throwing money out the window if you go a lot of IR training in advance.

Maybe FastJet can confirm if that is really true.



Will that make them want to hire me as a CFI even more?

I want to go to the Sacramento location- I am in Seattle.

Is the SAC location nice, FastJet?

thanks!

(I think I'll do well in the ATP call center while I'm waiting for a CFI slot in SAC, huh?! :D )

Check out that forum I linked to above- people talk about how you should avoid PFT (pay for training), such as Comair. I agree. (I'm not an airline pilot and don't really know that much on this subject except what I've researched in the last two months).

[quote="KLM777"]
LOL that's funny I have all three of those schools pamphlets in my room. I think the one with the Best offer is ATP but here is the rundown.

ATP
Course:Airline Career Pilot Program(ACPP)&Direct Track Placement
Will take you from Private Pilot to Certified Flight Instructor with approximately 190 hours of multi-engine time.You have two choices 90 day fast Track or 10 months(free housing).Direct Track is the new airline placement option following the Airline Career Pilot Program. Direct Track provides the fastest way to go from Airline Career Pilot Program graduate to Airline Pilot without flight instructing.Your success in receiving a Regional Airline First Officer job offer is backed by ATP’s exclusive $10,000 rebate guarantee and a guaranteed multi-engine instructor position with ATP.
Aircraft:65 PA-44 seminoles,2 diamond stars(13 on order),16 C-172, Cessna 525 and 501 jets
Price: ACPP=$39,995 DTP=$32,995 Total=$77,985



Regoinal Airline Academy
Course:My first impression was how could all of their graduates have an airline job and they only have about 6 planes at each campus.But then I found out that you have your choice of three different regional aircraft ratings included in your training. To tell you the truth I think they have a good offer but I wouldn't apply unless any of my first choicesdidn't work out. But if RAA is "your school", then nevertheless apply apply apply! Just so you know----"Regional Airline Academy has alliances with regional airlines that guarantee interviews for graduates. We offer college degrees and financial aid along with Flight Attendant Training."
Aircraft:22 total aircraft including PA28s, PA28Rs, PA32s and C152s
Price:$45,000(+or-)[/quote

___________________________________________
==================================
At ATP don't do the DTP and save $33,000. It doesn't make sense to go into $80,000 of debt because a regional pilot can't make those payments anyway!

Just do the $40,000 Career Pilot Program and then be a flight instructor at ATP and logs tons of multi.

Cheaper than Comair!

Don't pay for "connections"- pay for the training you are getting!!!

It doesn't matter how many nice new airplanes a school has if they are just singles!

ATP has plenty of new and post 2000 Seminoles- I can't wait to go there.

Wow, I sound like I work there already don't I?

Yes, Jetcareers is linked numerous times from this board and is mentioned on our 'sticky' threads. I even posted a link in the second post on this very thread. The flight school specific forums will give you some good insight. Additionally, see the second link in my first post. The Flightinfo.com boards are huge and have a training/schools section.

Does anyone have any input about American Flyers in Hayward, I have the GI Bill and ATP won't take it, any suggestions would be great, I also looked at Sierra Academy, and Air Desert Pacific.
Thanks for the help !!!

Do a search for those school names at http://forums.jetcareers.com & http://forums.flightnfo.com . There are lots of posts.

STRAT MAC 77

I am sorry about my late response, I failed to put a tag on this topic.

I don`t know is the short answer, all I know is that the JAX brabch of allATPs is where all the big airline boys go and their reports have been very good. Also, JAX is sooo busy most of the time which probably accounts for its popularity. But do the revision before you go.
I`m off soon. Yippeee!

Hey guys,

Do you know by any chance if there are any flightschools in Canada that can give you FAA Multi Engine Training?

Herewith I give you some information about my ratings:

FAA Private Pilot License ( SEL)
FAA Instrument Rating ( SEL)
FAA Commercial Airline Pilot License ( SEL)
My total Flighttime is approx. 280 hours.

Thank you very much in advance and hope to hear from you guys soon.

Sander

MESA AIRLINES PILOT DEVELOPMENT. you'll be flying online within 2 yrs. starting from the very beginning with your private.
http://www.mesa-air.com/mpd/

How you doing, i am an actual student at RAA in the deland, fl campus and believe me we got more than 22 aircraft, training here is fabulous, the instructors here teach everything you need to know to pass your FAA checkrides and pass your airline interview

You had better that happens or you will be in a lot of debt with no where near the flight time required to get a job anyplace else that is not affiliated with the RAA program!

Anyone know how much does the Singapore Flying College charges for private candidates?

I say ditch the airline training programs... build your hours the good old [fashioned] way. I was recently looking into qantas's [cadetship], which is very similar to these airline training programs in the US. They customise a course to suit you, depending on previous experience. If you have had no previous flight experience, for 70,000AUD you will have enough ratings to apply for an airline job...but you read the details, the fine print at the [bottom]- "this [cadetship] does not [guarantee] future employment with qantas". And some more details "you will [receive] around 150 hours PIC yada yada yada"-150? to apply for an airline these days, you need at least 1,000TT.... I've heard pilots saying that its really not even worth applying for an airline [until] you get around 1,800TT and pick up every rating that may be [useful]...

I myself do not see [the] point in spending 70,000AUD on a course that will not get you a job at the end anyway. For me it's [gonna] be get a loan, pick up my ratings and licenses (man that sounds simple) then try and get a job in the growing GA that is around my local area. Im hoping to maybe get a job at my flight school- [their] instructor contracts only last for like 600 hours or something, which can mean [their] looking for instructors every 6 months or so... Also Most of my mates would pay 50 AUD to go for an hour flight somewhere, and its only like 170AUD to hire a plane per engine hour here, so for every hour i build i will only pay like 30 AUD for a C172----its all planed out lol

[spell check! ]

Probably because as soon as the word 'Qantas' is invovled you could be considered to have a higher level of training then someone from [following is fictional] 'tugereebaa flight training'.

Eric, I don't see who is going to pay $50 for one hour in the air, And even If they could, It would be an hour every few months which is nothing .

I've checked out the [QANTAS] cadetship and one of the requirements is to be [an] Australian Citizen or permernant resident, which I am neither. Thus, I would like to be a private candidate in the Singapore Flying College and save some of the training bond (years). Currently the training bond for SIA, Singcargo & Silkair is 5-7 years from the date of appointment as first officer.

Dolb, when [potential] employers look at your logbook summary and see your flight time, there is no brandname. It doesn't matter whether you trained with qantas or in a dodgy C152 at a really bad flight school. As long as you learn what is in the '[syllabus]' i could say, then you are set...

I Disagree, Some Flight School's are more well-known and have a better 'reputation' than others, It's the same with High Schools, (Although In Australia employers are not meant to discriminate people based on what school they go to), Parents send their children to 'higher-class' reputable schools, sure, they cost more money, But are they recieving a better education? In alot of cases, Yes!

Sure I guess a licence is a licence no matter how you get there, Slack school or not, but IMO I'm sure some employers would appreciate how you were trained. Maybe Qantas themselves would have more faith in 'one of their own', (Meaning Cadets) than an unknown.

Your resume would include where you were trained, Again, No doubt It sounds better to be trained by Qantas than by (And also again the following does not exist) 'tugereebaa flight training'.

Hmmmm i suppose adding things like 'completed qantas's cadetshipp' in your resume may give you that edge if your flight time is the same as your competetors, but with the qantas (or any) caddetshipps you do not reseive much flight time. 150 hours seems like along time but in your logbook its nothing. Most people expect to finish these training programs and come out and get a job in the tough aviation industry-it simply wont happen...

Lets do some maths (note all figures are in $AUD)

Typically the minumums ( i say minimums) to receive your CPL is around 50 grand. Lets just throw in and extra 10 grand to allow for ratings etc..

So lets just say $60,000 (privatley) has me my ratings and around 180TT
Or i could go to a training program, recieve around 150TT, ratings, but pay $70,000.

If i saved that extra 10 grand by going privately i could invest it into building hours....

lets just say $10,000 divided by $200 (rough multi engine aircrarft hire rate) that could be an extra 50 hours, or in total 230TT

So i could 'waste 70 grand on a training course like qanats, recieve ratings and around 150TT

Or go privately, receive the exact same ratings, and around 230TT for the same price... I know which i would choose

Obviously these numbers are way to low to even apply for airline pilot vacancies: but it may be easier to get a job in GA with 230TT compared to 150TT from an airline training course...

In my opinion, more experience is alot more noticable to employers than saying you completed a caddetshipp...get my drift.

But cameron, that 'macair' thing you where telling me about, doesn't sound half bad. To fill everyone in, its a training course with macair (a regional airline in australia) which will provide you all ratings, and garanteed employment with the company for 1 year... put a link up dolb.

Unless you have the experience in the first place obviously you wouldn't be in the interview, 150 Hours as a Cadet VS 2000 ANYWHERE; Its obvious who would be 'picked'.


150 Hours is bear minimums, More than likely you'll need more than that ;),

On Completion of the Qantas Cadetship you have around 200 TT.

An extra 50 hours [Private hire] would roughly be $10,000 [If the cost p/hour is $200 as you say], So the prices are (sort of) comparable.

Maclite - http://www.macflite.com

'Training division' of Macair offer a program that Includes employment for 12 months, Would be a great way to build some hours however afterwards you would need to get some PIC Time somewhere .

If anyone is still following this thread, I was incorrect in my post where I said that you get 190hrs of multi at ATP. You get 140 hrs multi, 50 in an AST simulator when you do your IR and 10 in a 172 when you do your single commercial.

If anyone has any questions I'm going to be over at jetcareers in the ATP forum.

I just finished the cross country phase of ATP's program on 12/23 and am about to do my commercial and then go to CFI school on 1/16.

http://forums.jetcareers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=25

Go to www.allATPS.com they are very good and usually very busy because loads of students go there because they are very good. Tell `em who sent you, (I need all the help I can get).

if you were looking at RAA and DCA you might want to check out Flight Safety in vero beach florida, you do all of your instrument training in a multi engined aircraft and if you stayed and became an instructor you would leave with around 400-600 hours of multi time. its also cheaper around 50-60,000 instead of 80 grand

Hi

I'm planning to be a pilot for my career. I'll be going to college next year, so I need to pick a college where I can major in Aviation.

I want to eventually be a boeing 787 pilot, so i probably need to learn how to fly a boeing 777, because i read somewhere that you only need a few extra training weeks to be able to fly a boeing 787 if you already know boeing 777.

So, can someone check out this program and give me their opinion as to how well this program will prepare me?

http://www.bridgew.edu/Aviation/flighttraining.cfm

I realize that i probably will need to take additional flying lessons after i graduate from this college if i go to it, but do you think that this is a good start to get up to boeing 777?

Thanks

Hmmm...

Just like the ATP Program, except FS is more expensive. ($37,995 vs $50-60K.) I fly with two guys who got hired with 600TT/450ME eleven months after they started the ATP program.

With all due respect to you and your career aspectations, you need to do a LOT more reading and research. From the tone of your post you think this is all fairly straight forward and simple. It's not. Far from it.

Not really. Airlines do not care what subject your degree is in, only that you have one.


Lets crawl before trying to run, shall we? I wouldn't worry about flying 777s to get qualified for the as of yet unproduced 787. (One can easily go from a narrowbody to a widebody anyway.) Your long term widebody goal needs to be set in motion by a series of more attainable goals first. Worry about how you are going to get your first time building or regional job. Baby steps... Point A to B, not A to Z.


As far as aviation universities go, I've never heard of 'em. However, one does not need a degree in aviation to become a pilot. Some suggest NOT getting a degree in aviation just in case you ever need something to fall back on if aviation doesn't work out.

http://www.jetcareers.com/content/view/22/44/


Maybe, maybe not. If you have all your ratings & certificates then all you need do after college is gain flight experience via that first 'time building job'. BTW, any aircraft is a good start considering it will be years and years before you get close to a widebody aircraft. Again, baby steps! Smaller goals work up to the larger ones. Your cart is way in front of the horse on this one.

i actually have been reading about it for months now .. i know the way i wrote this it seems like it was an overnight job decision but ive wanted to be a pilot for a long time now.
I just dont really like small aircraft as much big ones.... heh thats why i said i liked 777 and 787.

thanks for the info

Interesting I don't know anything about ATP so i cant comment on them but when i compared the price i meant compared to DCA...

but on a side note how do you feel about the low time pilots flying regional jets... i know some people think it shouldn't be aloud and others who don't care....

yeah dude not putting you down or anything, everything starts out as a dream and then becomes reality, but this industry lives and dies by seniority...so as a young and new pilot you'll start out on the small P.O.S aircraft then work your way up...but a great place to build quality time would be at the night freight operators like AirNet.
but remember airlines look forQUALITY TIME over QUANTITY TIME.

I want to be a pilot someday but the flight school that I want to go to cost $6,000




-boeingrules

I want to drive a porsche someday, but the car that I want costs $100,000

-rjb4000

An aviation pilot degree needs to be retired immediately from all schools. If I had the chance to go back and do it all over again I would have gotten a degree in forensic science or something else but I would still learn to fly professionally. But I'll be ok, I got plenty of back up career options so it evens out for me.

Geez, this thread is TWO years old!