Hey all,

I have come to a critical standpoint in my aviation career. To continue my training privately($$$), or take a shot at Lufthansa. I am a dual citizen, speak/read/write fluent German, have my PPL, so I think I have the basic standards for a US citizen. The only thing I am clueless about the fact that I have a high school diploma, and am a second year in college. What is the equivelant to this in Germany? I know that they accept students based off of their final tests over there, so what do they use from us over here? SATS's, or maybe something equivalent?Anyways, I am hoping to get a shot at getting a spot at an "infotage" (Info day) in Bremenm in mid June, but I want to see if any of you know anything about the program first.

Program seems class act. Flying paid for, for the time being, and then you pay them back monthly. Starting salary out of the program is 60,000 euros/year!! Beats getting under 20k a year flying for the regionals. Anyways any thoughts would be helpful.

Danke!

Boeing

What exactly are we discussing?
Are you talking about the sponsored scheme from Lufthansa? If so, I must warn you that they won't accept your FAA PPL, you will have to pass the JAA one in order to be considered in their program. This does not prevent you from trying the entry test, they are in need of folks, and if you pass, they can offer you a delayed entry while you get your basic requirements in order.
Or are we discussing "Lufthansa training center" in Phoenix arizona?

Although they are closely related, I'd like to point out that only those who are initially sponsored by Lufthansa are going to be with Lufthansa. The ones that elected to go there by themselves hoping to get a slot are just paying an exuberant amount of money with the same opportunity that anyone else from any other school.

For other Lufthansa trends, hiring, and requirements, I am forwarding this post to a colleague with Lufthansa. He'll be able to shed some light on your questions.

Hi Boeing Ace. Here is the website for people interested in the Lufthansa Ab Initio program.
http://www.lufthansa-pilot.de/
It gives you all the information you need to see if this path is right for you. Basically there are three choices.
1. You can attend the 2 year program which is strictly geared towards airline pilot positions or...
2. you can attend a 4 year program giving you an additional bachelor's degree in aeronautics.
3. As a ready entry to become a flight instructor at the flight school. It requires experience and EU instructor's licenses.

Lufthansa and most european airlines do not require a degree, if the training is done at a flying school such as LFT ( Lufthansa Flight training Center).
ATCA (Arizona Airline Training Center) in Goodyear is part of LFT and is the location where the students start their flight training on Bonanzas.

In order to qualify for the Ab Initio program no flight experience is required. However the failure rate is at approx. 94%. Once you've passed they'll train you from the first hour. After the completion of the training you'll have to pay back approx. 60.000 EUROS for the training, which will be slowly deducted from your salary. Since the application test is free it's always worth a try.

Go to the info day - - - - CARPE` DIEM dude!

Good luck !

First off, thank you for the responses!



I would be interested in the sponsored scheme. Also that is unfortunate with my PPL, would I have to re-do all the flying to JAA standards, or just take a practical/written test to show my knowledge?

Also are you currently flying with Lufthansa? Any help from you colleagues would be much appreciated.



Does the 4 year program include the flight training as well, or will I have to apply to that after i get my bachelor's degree?

I have also heard from other people that the test( is it the DLR?) pass rate is something like 7%. Though this is a very competitive percentage, I am definitely going to give it a shot. How many try's do you get at it? Just one right?

Thanks for the responses, they are extremely helpful.

Boeing

Trust me I will seize the moment!!

Thanks!

Already having a PPL doesn't mean a thing within the program. Three of my classmates had PPL's and one of them even failed during the training and had to leave. Besides it is a set program and if you already know how to handle a plane initially , it might give you an advantage for a few weeks ,at the most. You would simply stick to the set syllabus and take the same tests and the same flights. The 4 year program does include the flying part, as far as I know.
As you said the failure rate is quite high and the test can only be taken once. However if you should pass and flying with an airline is your thing, it would be truly a "set career" as an airline pilot.

I realize that this is an extremely difficult test. Is there any sort of test prep I can do for it?

There are places offering a testprep in Germany. Most of them have adds running in german aviation magazines such as AeroInternational http://www.aerointernational.de
or Aerokurier : http://www.aerokurier.de

There is also numerous sites offering software programs for a test prep such as:
http://www.skytest.de

I cannot personally vouch for any since I haven't had any experience with the programs and seminars.
It will not be held against you if you attend a prep seminar or use software.
In the end the only thing these seminars and preps do is to give you a sense of familiarity when you take
the real test and take away a bit of the tension and fear.

Since you brought it up. A friend of mine participated in one of those pretest training schools and also studied with some software. It actually did help him as he made it into the last round. Never the less he failed at the part where most aspirants fail - the psychologist. He also told me that he had been advised not to tell Lufthansa that he had attended such a training course.

Thanks for the responses.

I am going to look into getting some software, just to get an idea of what will be on the test. What does the psych exam consist of?

The psychological tests include everything from multiple choice questions to monitoring how you act as a team member or a leader in certain conditions and stress situations. All the tests cannot ever be all answered correctly. So at a point sooner or later everybody will reach their breaking point. It's also a question of how you deal with that situation and how you act thereafter. The questions giving them an idea about your character are asked repeatedly and in different ways throughout the tests so the only thing you can do is to simply answer them truthfully. They will find out if you try to simply answer "to please them".

This definitely is not going to be a walk in the park. I found a few test prep companies that help you pass the test. (I think if you fail it they will even give you your money back!) They are quite expensive though. Do I only have one shot at the test in general, or can I take it for each specific airline(LH, LH cityline.)

What do you think of LH cityline, would that be an easier route, to fly 4 years with them and then try to transfer as a ready entry to the LH mainline? What are the chances at that?

BA

Wthin the Lufthansa Group they all usually go thru the same testing facilities. The LH Cityline has just a fraction lower qualifying requirements. So with the highest scores you get to choose where within the LH group
(Lufthansa, Lufthansa Cargo, LH Cityline, German Wings, Condor or Condor Berlin) you'd like to start.
LH Cityline Pilots are however not on the same pilot seniority list so they cannot switch to the others. The only way to get from LH Cityline to the others is to be lucky and hope that there is a pilot shortage allowing LH to hire ready entries AFTER you've passed the qualifying tests. That is the only way to take the test for a second time.
Once you are within the LH pilot seniority list ( LH, LHCargo, Condor, Condor Berlin & German WIngs), you can switch to other departments according to your seniority. There are a lot of former LH Cityline pilots at LH Cargo. For a few years LH Cargo was allowed to hire ready entries to fill the positions. They too had to go back and take the qualifying test. Once they are at LH Cargo they are on the seniority list.

Ok so let me get this straight--
Everyone takes the same test and then they have placement options. With the highest scores, you basically place into all the airlines and can choose from each of them. If you have lower scores your options narrow down.

Why is LH Cityline not considered a "seniority" airline? Is it because it is a regional?

and..if you manage to get a spot with Cityline, and apply for LH mainline, you have to retake the DLR and pass with LH standards? Seems weird if you are doing the same flight training.

Thanks - BA

It's been a while since I took the test and did the training but generally not much has changed. The flight academy at Bremen as well as Goodyear / Arizona are usually reserved for the LH Mainline pilot cadets. Cityline pilots get their training elsewhere.So therefore if the mainline hires ready entries, they'll have to pass the DLR test.
In most parts of the world the regionals are separated from the mainline carrier.

thanks trijet, you have been of much help! may I ask what your affiliation with Lufthansa is? Do you fly for them?

BA

I started with them on the Mainline Boeing 737's many years ago before moving to the MD11 with LH Cargo.

wish I could be in your position already. All this is really stressing me out. Time to hit the books.

Thanks for the help.

BA