I was wondering if passengers are still allowed to go inside the cockpit in the US. i knew the general manager at Southwest and got to go inside the cockpit and walk around the aircraft and see different stuff. i really just want to basically job shadow for a day to see if this is exactly the profession i want to pursue being as i'm 17 and my options are still open... any possible way someone has connections?

best regards,
Will

No, you will not be allowed in the cockpit once the crew begins to perform their crew duties. You might be allowed to stick your head in and take a quick look around before they actually go to work, but once things start to get serious you'll be asked to leave. You can thank olive skinned males between the ages of 18 and 35.

Someone should explain this to TSA!

The last flight I went on (RAK - LHR) went via Casablanca and I took the opportunity during the stop to go up into the cockpit and talk to the pilots.
In the U.S they are very strict about passengers in the cockpit during the flight (it's illegal) however on the ground I think it's allowed.

Trixie wrote those touching words :


http://www.flightlevel350.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4229

I was fortunate to be allowed to have a quick peep in the cockpit, but that was over a year ago, and only when I asked the cabin crew if I could have a look in the cockpit on the flight from Glasgow to Las Palmas. It was allowed to look , but only after the passengers had alighted. The Captain and the flight crew were very polite even though they had paperwork to fill in. So I never waited long. I wish I could have sat in the jump seat.. One of my life's ambitions is to sit in a jump seat all the way through a flight , but 9/11 put paid to that..The simple answer is .......You are not allowed in the cockpit, unless you ask the cabin crew nicely, and only after the passengers have disembarked.

Like everyone else has said you will not be allowed on the flight deck of an airliner during flight, unless your an airline employee or an FAA inspector.

You might try contacting a corporate flight department, they fly under Part 91 or Part 135 regs. I doubt you'll have much luck, but it's worth a shot. Try contacting the FBO's at your local airport and see what they say.

When flying from Nice (France) to Copenhagen (Denmark), my friend's seat was covered in vomit, so he got to sit in the jump seat all the way.

The pilots told him that if the destination would've been somewhere like e.g. London or any other major city where terrorist attacks have been going on lately (like Madrid etc.), then he would not be able to sit in the cockpit.

(I know the OP asked for information on this matter in the US, but I thought this was interesting enough to share)

Oh and btw, without the intention of going off topic, could someone tell me if the same rules apply for flights outside the US? I guess they do?

Well, in the US, the practice is generally to clean up the vomit in the seat, disinfect the area, and thorougly dry the seat - or exchange the seat cushions - before asking a passenger to sit in that seat for the flight. And, that's true whether the flight is US domestic or departing the US for any foreign destination.

PS - what airline would have the bal...er, nerve... to ask a paying passenger to occupy a seat that had been uh...christened with someone else's slightly-used lunch?

Naturally, this would be standard procedure in Europe as well (not to mention probably anywhere in the world), though sometimes planes are not scheduled to be on the ground long enough for cleaning, and changing a whole seat cushion could take quite a while if I am not mistaken. I assume that my friend was allowed in the cockpit to avoid a long wait for the passengers. But then again, as I said, they would not have let him if the destination would have been another major city where terrorist attacks have been going on lately like e.g London and Madrid.

Perhaps this is why standard procedure in the US is to change to cushion no matter if it would take a while - simply because the US itself has been a target of terrorist attacks lately.

Cheers!



Oh and btw, I just realise that my question to my last post was a bit unclear and could easily be misunderstood. I asked:

"could someone tell me if the same rules apply for flights outside the US? I guess they do?"

By this I was referring to the general rule of letting a passenger sit in the cockpit during flight, not to what happened in my little story! Anyway I guess they do..

thanks!

Ummm....sorry, I just cannot imagine any flight, cabin, ground, or service crew for any airline anywhere in the world who would be so concerned about an "on time" departure as to want to sit a paying passenger in, or, for the most part, even near (within smelling distance), such a soiled seat. Anyone having to endure the stench from such a soiled seat would generate a huge, negative passenger response. Seat cushions and seat backs, for the most part, are able to be changed in a matter of minutes. If the soiling was from something like coffee, tea, water, booze, etc., (i.e., no noticable stench) and there were no cushions or backs available from any source at that time - the most logical action I think that would be taken would be to block the seat - and go with one less passenger.

I certainly don't know your friend, but, on the surface, I'd take his story with a grain of salt. Most reputable airlines have very strict rules, and for the Captain to jeopardize his job to give a guy a ride in the jumpseat doesn't seem to be worth the potential cost - no matter the reason. My point is, unless the airline in question is operating with their head in the sand, I would think that there are very few (if any) that would let anyone into the cockpit at any time the airplane is moving under its own power - no matter where in the world they operate.

Air Rabbit is correct. No way would a passenger be allowed to sit in the cockpit during a flight.. sick or no sick. The Captain could never allow that. Just think how a terrorist could use that excuse to gain access to the cockpit. Easy or what!

Ehh... excuse me? You think I'm lying? I was on that flight myself, and believe me I was hella jealous of my friend who got to sit in the cockpit.. the pilot even ran after me and my friend on our way out of the plane with a poster my friend (who sat in the jumpseat) had forgotten when he left the cockpit.. This is absolutely true. If you are interested, the company we flew with was SAS (Scandinavian Airlines). And when they know the passenger is a young and innocent Norwegian student on his way back home from a school trip, why the hell would they be "risking" their lives by letting him sit in the cockpit? I mean, there was no need to sense any danger... of course there is a possibility that he is a terrorist or something, but as this chance is very slim if not nonexistent, why would they ruin his whole trip by leaving him alone behind when they can let him sit in the cockpit? they know he has no weapons anyway, and as he is just one guy vs two.. what could possibly happen?



Yes. The seat of my friend who is a terrorist is accidentally puked on beforehand so that he can hijack the plane.

Oh lord, what a coincidence!

Give me a break guys.. and the story is true, I don't know why you think I would lie about such a thing.

Because it's unlawful...

Not saying it's false, but the pilot would risk losing his job for that... which I guess not many would do.

Give you a break, huh? I'll give you a lesson.

The point that BB121 and Rabbit are correctly making is that it's not done. It's illegal...as in NOT legal. It doesn't matter how young, innocent, or Norwegian your friend is. It doesn't matter that he's not a terrorist or that there was just one of him. It certainly doesn't matter that the airplane is running late...let it be late. Let it sit there all day before I break the law and end up on the long end of the unemployment line. In fact, I'd put a passenger off the aircraft before he'll ride in the cockpit against the law...because one passenger being put off the aircraft is not a big deal...ruin your trip or not...I've done it more than a few times. I'm still flying because I did the right thing.

Aviation and airlines have rules. As pilots, flight crew, aircrew, ATC, ground personnel...we all follow those rules...to the letter, and to the law. In certain situations, those rules may be bent or broken...but those situations usually include the words "Declaring an Emergency" and involve a strict adherence to safety and the proper conclusion of the flight. A passenger seat with barf on it is not an emergency...even in France and Norway.

If SAS is breaking THAT rule, I wonder what other rules they may be breaking? I wonder if the JAA would be interested in talking to your friend about his experience...I know the FAA would certainly be interested if an airline that flies within the confines of US Airspace is breaking Federal Aviation Regulations in the interest of a expediency in regards to a barf covered seat. What regulations has SAS decided are important and which are not. I wonder who else they are letting into the cockpit...

When Air Rabbit and BB121 tell you something, they are usually correct. Hell, Rabbit has forgotten more about aviation that I'll ever learn...and I've been at this for a little while. Pay attention to him and you just might learn something...I always have.

I can imagine that it happened in a similar manner as told by Sean. Over the years after 9/11 we all (crew, passengers and public) have been preconditioned with all the regulations and rules that come out almost on a monthly basis. As of end of March cargo airlines will no longer be allowed to take their family members along a flight (I´m not talking about in the cockpit....) Obviously somebody thought a disgruntled wife or a hormone crazed daughter or son might be considered a potential terrorist endangering the lives of the crew and people on the ground.....but it´s O.K.....afterall IN THE INTEREST OF OUR PERSONAL SAFETY...bla bla bla....

Cargo couriers or horse handlers ( who I´ve never seen before in my life) who have been security checked in some far away country supposedly are more trustworthy than my wife or sons....but it´s O.K.....afterall IN THE INTEREST OF OUR PERSONAL SAFETY...bla bla bla....

So my final thought is: Eventhough with current regulations and company policies the captain probably broke a rule or two. I can´t imagine the airline leaving the Puke on the seat and taking it along for the flight. What might have happened is that they tried to clean it up as much as possible but nothing is as lingering as the odor of fresh...
So the captain made a judgement call and decided to take the boy (who probably looks as threatening as Callou or Harry Potter) instead of leaving him behind or forcing him to sit on the hastily wiped seat (which I wouldn´t want to do). I hope in the not too distant future governments and agencies worldwide will give us crews and airline employees the ability back to make our own judgements and decisions...and maybe let that 98 year old blind lady in the wheelchair slide and not stripsearch her, just because her watch made the metal detector go off...
Then again: female check on lane 2 !! IN THE INTEREST OF OUR PERSONAL SAFETY...bla bla bla....

agree with trijet.

Rules are rules, but damn.. some exceptions should be made sometimes. Maybe it was wrong of the captian to let my friend sit in the cockpit, that's fine and probably correct.. what I reacted the most to though was that you did not believe me.. why the hell would I lie about such a thing?

heh

When was this exactly?

I never once said you were lying Sean. My concern was that the passenger was allowed in the jumpseat. if you make an exception for one person, then where does it stop.. I do understand where Trijet is coming from too. he is a pilot as is 27driver, and I am a mere passenger so what do I know about that side of things? I am just putting my opinion, and that is what a forum is for. We will not agree all the time with what is said and so it becomes a healthy debate as long as it does not get out of hand.

Hey Sean....


Noone was accusing you of lying my friend, they were just a little skeptical about the course of events and how your friend proclaimed them.

As a matter of fact, I'm a little skeptical...but I wasn't there.....

February 2006

I have a question:
If I was a pilot and wanted a friend of mine to have a visit in the cockpit would that be allowed? The friend is not a passenger of the flight, but he/she is being taken for the journey and would sit in the jumpseat throughout the flight. Would that be allowed?

That is what is so upsetting about the whole thing. Forget "friend"...you can´t even take your mother, who gave you life, with you. She might be a potenial terrorist and might endanger your life!!

Nope.. I have a friend who is going to fly for Easyjet, and I have known him for quite some time now , but even so, I still would never be allowed to sit in the jumpseat. It just does not matter at all. Rules are rules. The law is the law. You would end up sacked my friend.

Well, damn, then I'm just a very lucky guy... I get to go in the jumpseat, since the push-back to the parking. And, well... I was going to BOG because I was going to do my apprentice time over there (well... here), and I didn't know the pilot, but I did have a company ID, which obviously I showed to the Captain.

Don't know how that changes things around, for the record it was on December 15, 2006.

Yeah.. if you're a pilot yourself, I think you should be allowed to sit in the cockpit. especially if you're a pilot for the same company!

Sean:

It was I who was skeptical of the story. So, if you’re upset with anyone, it should be me with whom you have an issue. I offer the following in my defense: you may be surprised (or perhaps not) at the number of times I’ve run across one of my “younger” friends who gives me a really outlandish story about something that may have actually happened; but there’s a 98% probability that it didn’t happen – and a 98% probability that the story was designed strictly to impress someone.

For example: A guy is telling a story about Deep-Sea fishing on a vacation in Key West, Florida. He describes catching a 12-foot shark on the line and having to fight him for over an hour to get him to the side of the boat. A young friend in the group chimes in with his recollection of the last time he and his family were in St. Thomas, VI, snorkeling and spear fishing with a “hand spear.” He describes how a 15-foot shark comes out of no where and chases the lad back to the beach. This story from a 16-year old who (I know) doesn’t know how to swim! And, believe me, there are hundreds of other similar examples.

My response was sort of a “cry wolf” scenario, I guess. I know the rules and I think I know how most airline crews would have handled that particular problem. So, if I was in error in questioning you about your friend’s journey in the cockpit, I apologize. I guess there are always exceptions to almost anything. I happen to know quite a few of the SAS pilots in both Stockholm and Oslo and the next time I run across one of them, I’ll have to ask what their policy is now about letting folks into the cockpit – and if a soiled seat in the cabin would have a similar result with one of them. At least it will give me an opportunity to "heckel" them a bit - as they do me almost all of the time.

Don’t get me wrong… I’m not an advocate of the way things have to be today. And, I think that the US has probably gone a lot farther than anyone else has about security – and the way they apply it. I, too, believe that the little Jewish lady boarding in Chicago with her three grandchildren under the age of 9 (all with Mickey Mouse ears on) headed to Orlando, is probably less likely to be a terrorist than the 3 olive-skinned males – about 20 years old – huddled in the corner praying and mumbling about something in a mid-eastern dialect. But, because we, in the US, want to make sure we don’t insult anyone unfairly (as we might actually hurt their feelings or something serious like that), we treat Grandma and the kids exactly the same way as Muftasa, Hamil, and Imir. Make sense? No, it doesn’t. Will it change? No, probably not. Welcome to the 21st century and the age of political correctness.

Ahhh, first, I'm no pilot... I'm a dispatcher (but pilot soon-to-be), and second, I'm not a company's employee, I'm an apprentice, with NO license just yet...

Screw that...I want to know what the heck Muftasa, Hamil, and Imir are talking about, otherwise there's gonna be some kind of malfunction and we're gonna have to be delayed while there's another background check. And as the PIC, I get to make that decision. Thankfully, management would (and has) understand why I feel that way, even if the PC police do not. That's why you know that PC police aren't pilots...all situations look a lot different at altitude then on the ground...and PC doesn't matter when the feces strikes the rotating air-transmuting device...at least in my limited experience...

Either way, rules are rules and we follow them as that is how the aviation world works...no matter how we personally feel about it.

So...a 16 year old non-swimmer can outrun a 15 foot shark? Dude...they're not making sharks like they used to.

My point ... exactly.

Ive heard of people managing to get a peep in the cockpit during the flight. It seems to me that in the US the only way that you are going to get a look at the flight deck is if you are wearing a uniform (pilots!) or somtimes preflight or at arrival. Outside the US it doesnt seem to be policed so much with some airlines (especialy charters) allowing passengers inside although this is what i have just heard from friends that are cabin crew.

Last year i was a passenger with MyTravel airlines and was surprised to se the captain keep the door open throughout the taxi to the runway, guess he forgot!!!

Dave

Well, may I say: That's just wrong!!!

Yup. The pilot was a real nice guy though, when we got of the other end he followed me off the plane down the stairs to do checks. Unfortunately the coach taking us to the terminal building was full ,so whilst I waited for another one me and the pilot had a chat!

Whaaaaat? I would call that fortunately

I dont understand what you are talking about. I have NEVER had any problems with getting into the cockpit before flight, and often i get to sit in the jumpseat the whole way (maybe that has something to do with the fact that i am 15 and innocent-looking and most of the flights i am on are in in Norway, though). The pilots nearly always let me sit in the jumpseat if the flight is not to an uptight city like london, as the authorities there would "totally flip out" like the pilot's i've flown with usually say. But, i have also sat in the jumpseat of a southwest 737-700 from nashville to BWI, and in an icelandair 757 from Keflavik to BWI (yup, sat in the cockpit for 6 hours). What you have to do that often works for me is first to make your way into the cockpit preflight somehow, and then ask the pilots a couple o' questions about the aircraft systems and procedures, etc.
After they are starting to feel comfortable with you being there and the ice is broken, ask casually if you can sit in the jumpseat during takeoff. if they say yes, you will most probably be able to stay for the entire flight.

Yes you are only 15 and yes you are not a terrorist, but think about the way a terrorist's mind works. Get a young lad, innocent looking too I may add, and very pleasant, very informative, wishing to know all about flying, asking the right questions so the pilots are relaxed enough to let him into the cockpit. Then what can happen!!
The thing is that it has all changed since 9/11, and I for one would have loved to have sat in a jump seat, but no way will I ever be allowed to or the pilot will lose his job.
It is not about being "uptight" by the way, it is all about making damn sure the passengers and the crew are safe in all their flights, and I for one am quite happy that this is imposed on all the flights I have been on.

Hi. I know in the UK The CAA haven't changed anything (or at least i don't think they have) so we're still allowed to go to the cockpit if the Captian approves of the request.



Lol i would have to agree on that

What you say is paritally true, but only if you put in the request via the cabin crew, who in turn, ask the Captain and if he agrees it will only be when all passengers have left the aircraft and not at any other time.