Overspeeding And Stalling Options

[AspiringPilot]

Everytime I take off and Im in a 747 and then Im going to the altitude ATC tells me to go I always tend to overspeed. So here's the question..How far back should you pull the throttles prior to take off? I also was wondering how long into a long haul flight can you have flaps down to reach cruise? OKay I have another question....How much pounds of fuel approximately does a 747 need to do a long haul flight from KJFK-VHHH? Which is also known as HKG.

[EBS757]

Everytime I take off and Im in a 747 and then Im going to the altitude ATC tells me to go I always tend to overspeed. So here's the question..How far back should you pull the throttles prior to take off? I also was wondering how long into a long haul flight can you have flaps down to reach cruise? OKay I have another question....How much pounds of fuel approximately does a 747 need to do a long haul flight from KJFK-VHHH? Which is also known as HKG.

I think you mean pull the throttles back after takeoff. An airplane can only sustain full power for several seconds after take-off. Then they would pull them back to their designated position. Turn on auto throttles etc. About the flaps. Watch some videos here of airliners climbing up and ule notice none keep there flaps down all the way to cruise. There usually retracted around 1,000 feet after take-off

Hope this helps,
Mike

[cobzz]

Move throttles to 95% N1 at takeoff. Once at 500 feet reduce thrust to 92% N1 then use pitch allone to continue to 250knots.

At 250knots use pitch to hold 250knots without touching throttle. At 10000feet lower nose to get to 280-330 knots. At 280-330 knots pull up to stay at that speed.

Once you reach your cruise mach number, use pitch alone to hold that, then level off at your cruise alt and then reduce thrust to cruise power.

Well, it's obviously more complicated than that. But that's the simple version of how VNAV works in modern jets. In layman terms, use pitch to contol speed.

[klm_city_hopper]

Yeh, Cobzz and EBS757 covered what I said. Basically put her on about 95% throttle on take off with about 10° flaps. I usually then put throttle on auto at about 250 knots to start, and re-contract flaps, a few mins into the climb.

[niko_future_pilo...]

An airplane can only sustain full power for several seconds after take-off.

really? what would happen? i always thought that was some fuel consumption thinguy. i guess the airframe would get a bit warn over the years too. but i mean would s/t dramatic happen if they we'rent pulled back?

[EBS757]

really? what would happen? i always thought that was some fuel consumption thinguy. i guess the airframe would get a bit warn over the years too. but i mean would s/t dramatic happen if they we'rent pulled back?

I didn't mean that in a physical way. They can but its unhealthy for the engines. Also I do think fuel consumption plays a factor. Well thats what a pilot told me...

[cobzz]

Yeh, Cobzz and EBS757 covered what I said. Basically put her on about 95% throttle on take off with about 10° flaps. I usually then put throttle on auto at about 250 knots to start, and re-contract flaps, a few mins into the climb.

Yeah..... But I said contol speed with pitch.

[EBS757]

Yeah..... But I said contol speed with pitch.

Congrats..

[Hamilton]

Try using the auto pilot features once u takeoff, that should take care of your speed, climb, your heading, ofcourse u need to turn on the autothrottle. And try flying IFR its fun

Regards,
HamiltonAir

[cobzz]

Congrats..

THANKS MANNNNNNN!!!!!!!

[DeltaBoeing727]

Try using the auto pilot features once u takeoff, that should take care of your speed, climb, your heading, ofcourse u need to turn on the autothrottle. And try flying IFR its fun

Regards,
HamiltonAir

True on the autopilot part, but you really got to be careful. B/c you could end up climbing too high and when your plane tries to level itself out, you'll stall. Or you could go at a low trajectory causing the autothrottle to ease back too much and when you attempt to correct it, again you can stall. Also it depends on the aircraft and weight. Im not saying it's bad, dont do it...instead im saying, be careful when doing it. I usually fly manual until around 1500 to 2000 feet, then i hit autopilot, but i always keep on autothrottle.

[Hamilton]

True on the autopilot part, but you really got to be careful. B/c you could end up climbing too high and when your plane tries to level itself out, you'll stall. Or you could go at a low trajectory causing the autothrottle to ease back too much and when you attempt to correct it, again you can stall. Also it depends on the aircraft and weight. Im not saying it's bad, dont do it...instead im saying, be careful when doing it. I usually fly manual until around 1500 to 2000 feet, then i hit autopilot, but i always keep on autothrottle.

DeltaBoeing is correct, I would recommend not to hit the autopilot until 2000ft, but hey, its fun flying without autopilot too

Regards,
HamiltonAir

[Ranger]

Do you guys want an explanation on how this stuff really works and how to fly it correctly? I don't want to upset anybody.

[c150student]

I think thats probably a good idea Ranger, if you wouldnt mind

[Ranger]

First, the disclaimers. I'll try to do a good description of the way it is done in the equipment that I fly for the company that I fly for. To the best of my knowledge, we're not much different than other US airlines in the way that we operate our equipment. A good deal of the profile is basically dictated by either the FAA or airport management. You should also know that I am complete agreement with AirRabbit. FS is a nice computer program. It is not an airplane. If you're good at FS, good for you. But it doesn't make you a pilot. I know very little about FS. But from what I do know it would help the user if he/she had some source information for using it (the program) the way that the various airplane manufacturers intended that the actual airplane be flown. That would make it far more accurate and realistic. Big airplane flying DOES NOT lend itself well to seat of the pants flying. Now, if any or all of this has pi$$ed you off, stop reading this post. And I don't want a bunch of angry PM's for being honest with you.

First, a suggestion. If you get frustrated when you climb a FS airplane to FL410 and it falls out of the sky, don't climb that high. Big airliners are very content, and do pretty well with regard to fuel economy, in the FL310- FL350 range. You can't make a piece of equipment do something that it isn't designed to do. When your B-747 of AirBus 330 plumets to the earth you've asked it to do too much in the way of performance, So let's assume that we've started with a realistic weight and a realistic amount of fuel to complete our flight. Let's start on the runway just prior to takeoff.

Takeoff power- There are two different varities of takeoff power. Maximum takeoff power and standard takeoff power. Max is max. That's the maximum amount of power, set by using either the N1 or E.P.R. settings, that the engines will produce under a given set of conditions, i.e., the weather and outside conditions. Temperature is a major determining factor with regard to weather. So is the use of engine and/or airframe anti-icing. Standard power is a reduced power setting designed to save wear and tear on the engines. Most engine failures occur at max power during the takeoff roll or soon thereafter. Standard power is almost always used if conditions allow. The pilot flying should call for the power to be set to the appropriate value. "Set standard power." As the airplane rolls down the runway the first call will be at 80 knots. Some companies make the call at 100k. The reason for that call is to check the early accuracy of the airspeed indicators. The next calls are V1, Vr (or rotate) and finally V2. Once the airplane is off the runway the pilot flying should use pitch to maintain flying airspeed at V2+10 knots or so. The pitch attitude to accomplish this will vary with weight. Aim for between 15-20 degrees and you should be fine. At 500', engage the autopilot. If the airplane is FMS equipped and you've strung a flight plan you also want to engage prof and select either heading or nav, whichever is appropriate. After the autopilot is engaged the airplane should fly a normal noise abatement profile. If you want to hand fly that noise abatement profile do this- climb to 1500' agl at V2+10K. At 1500'agl, select altitude. That will cause the airplane to go to normal climb power and start an initial high rate of climb ascent. At 3000' agl select the airspeed to 250k or Vcl, whichever is appropriate. When you reach that airspeed use pitch to maintain it. This is the general description of the normal noise abatement procedure that I fly on literally every departure out of every airport in the world that I operate into and out of.

Climb- Once climb power has been set there's only one way to maintain the climb airspeed. Pitch. If you're going faster than you wanna go, bring the nose up slowly and get the airspeed trending back to where you want it. As it approaches the desired speed, lower the nose slightly. If the autopilot is engaged it will do a wonderful job of doing this for you. This brings up a point. Do you want to know how to do something correctly? Watch the autopilot do it. Wanna know how to fly a proper noise abatement procedure? Watch the autopilot. Wanna know how to properly land the airplane in a crosswind? Watch the autopliot do it. Back to the climb. We are maintaining 250k or Vcl at the moment. Once we reach transition altitude or 10,000' or whatever the correct altitude is in your part of the world, we accelerate to our high speed climb. That number will vary by aircraft or even company policy. It's typically 355 knots or about .83m in the equipment that I fly. We maintain the indicated airspeed, 355k, until we arrive at the mach airspeed, .83. We then transition to the mach climb speed until we reach our cruise altitude.

Cruise- At cruise we will maintain a normal cruise mach value. For a B-737-200 that'll be around .76m, for a B-747 it's around .85m. If you're flying a larger transport aircraft, B-747, DC-10, MD-11, keep the speeed between .80 and .84. That's a very safe operating range. How do you maintain that speed? Adjust the power. Big airplanes at altitude fly in a slightly nose up attitude. Adjust the pitch to maintain altitude and the power to maintain the speed. Even better is to engage the autothrottles and autopilot and let them do it for you. You should also know that hand flying big airplanes at cruise altitudes is very, very difficult. If you're a rank amateur and you're trying to do this I'd bet that you're either going way overspeed or you're stalling it and falling out of the sky. Wanna know how to do it right? Engage the magic and watch it do its job. It knows what it's doing.

If you can figure out a way to imitate most of this stuff I'd bet that you'll do OK in FS. Just don't push the envelope if you seriously want to know how to do it right. That's test pilot stuff. And regular line grunts like me are NOT test pilots. We simply fly from restaurant to restaurant or bar to bar.

[DeltaBoeing727]

WOW!! You know...the topic is "Flight Simulation", so you know if someone meses this up, the only person who's gonna suffer is the virtual ground and the virtual plane, and if you have FSPassengers...the virtual people. Honestly, when you said, "Did you want an explination", no one expected THAT MUCH!! Wow, oh well. Very informative though, thank you. I can see you put like an hour into this post and possibly quite a bit of research. Thanks, Ranger. Go Army...Hooah!

[EBS757]

. I can see you put like an hour into this post and possibly quite a bit of research.

Research? Hes Ranger!

And thanks for the very informative explanation, I enjoyed reading it.

[Kilrah]

Yes, thanks. Even if I'm not into simulation at all I really enjoy reading this type of very informative posts.

[c150student]

Thanks for the reply Ranger. A very comprahensive response, from someone who knows what he is doing. I'll admit, I learned alot from that post. I'll also admit that I havent the foggiest on how to fly an airliner properly...I've always pushed the levers to the top in an airliner (on FS) during takeoff... because thats what my GA instructor taught me to do. I guess I fly the 737 on FS like a large cessna, which, obviously, isnt right.

Which brings us on to another point. FS makes people think they're pilots. A topic was made in the polls section (by myself lol) about whethe or not you'd volunteer to fly an airliner if the flight crew were incapacitated. If I were a passenger with 0 flying experience, I'd rather someone with FS knowledge flew, than a cabin crew member with 0 experience. But still, the FS guy may think he can fly a plane perfectly. I've gotten a 737 from Luton to Amsterdam on FS, with a go-around, no sweat. But could I do it in real life without damaging the plane? Doubt it. Could I fly a cessna 150/172 from one UK airport to another? Probably. I'd likely make several mistakes, as havent finised navigation yet, but I hope I can handle the aircraft alright, which shows there is no substitute for real-world training. Could I do the same thing with FS experience alone? Hell no!

Which is a long winded way of saying this is why we should appreciate Ranger telling us how he does these things. DeltaBoeing727, I appreciate you were most likely joking, so dont get mad, but if you really want to know how to fly FS properly, its probably a good idea to take the advice from someone who has real-world experience. We all have our own ways of managing the problem of stalling and overspeeding during the climb, but if you want to use FS to its full potential, that is, a simulator, then we should all get used to flying as realistically as possible.

However, FS IS only a game. So, still chuck the plane around or whatever, thats what I do most of the time. I dont like to fly seriously on FS, I prefer to do all the things my instructor wont let me do in a real plane (such as buzzing the control tower). But when I do do a proper, simulated flight, I try my best to fly it as I would in real life.

I apologize for any spelling errors, but I swear theres something wrong with this keyboard...

[DeltaBoeing727]

Which brings us on to another point. FS makes people think they're pilots. A topic was made in the polls section (by myself lol) about whethe or not you'd volunteer to fly an airliner if the flight crew were incapacitated. If I were a passenger with 0 flying experience, I'd rather someone with FS knowledge flew, than a cabin crew member with 0 experience. But still, the FS guy may think he can fly a plane perfectly. I've gotten a 737 from Luton to Amsterdam on FS, with a go-around, no sweat. But could I do it in real life without damaging the plane? Doubt it. Could I fly a cessna 150/172 from one UK airport to another? Probably. I'd likely make several mistakes, as havent finised navigation yet, but I hope I can handle the aircraft alright, which shows there is no substitute for real-world training. Could I do the same thing with FS experience alone? Hell no!

Actually, i would like to respond to that. I was thinking about this same thing last thursday (after i had an odd dream lol If, for any reason the crew on my aircraft were incapaciatated, i would attempt to land the plane safely on the gorund. No joke, i would try it. Sure it wont be professional, but im pretty sure that i could get it down. I understand that FS isn't totally real, and i never fly as totally real as it gets either, but honestly, how hard could it be? I would just talk to ATC who would guide me through the whole process (or at least the parts i didnt know) I know how to fully function the autopilot and i know speed limits versus the safety of the structure of the aircraft. So, even though I have never physically flown a plane, i would attempt it to the absolute best of my abilities if it were my choice. (I sincerely doubt i'd have that choice though, lol) Simply my $0.2. And twords Ranger, i was joking about how he put down too much, for one can never know too much on aviation. And so, if it was unclear to anyone before, i really do appreciate the effort Ranger puts into our forums.