Are Passengers Still Allowed In The Cockpit? Options

[wvstudentpilot]

I was wondering if passengers are still allowed to go inside the cockpit in the US. i knew the general manager at Southwest and got to go inside the cockpit and walk around the aircraft and see different stuff. i really just want to basically job shadow for a day to see if this is exactly the profession i want to pursue being as i'm 17 and my options are still open... any possible way someone has connections?

best regards,
Will

[Ranger]

I was wondering if passengers are still allowed to go inside the cockpit in the US. i knew the general manager at Southwest and got to go inside the cockpit and walk around the aircraft and see different stuff. i really just want to basically job shadow for a day to see if this is exactly the profession i want to pursue being as i'm 17 and my options are still open... any possible way someone has connections?

best regards,
Will

No, you will not be allowed in the cockpit once the crew begins to perform their crew duties. You might be allowed to stick your head in and take a quick look around before they actually go to work, but once things start to get serious you'll be asked to leave. You can thank olive skinned males between the ages of 18 and 35.

[bernoulli]

You can thank olive skinned males between the ages of 18 and 35.

Someone should explain this to TSA!

[morris542]

The last flight I went on (RAK - LHR) went via Casablanca and I took the opportunity during the stop to go up into the cockpit and talk to the pilots.
In the U.S they are very strict about passengers in the cockpit during the flight (it's illegal) however on the ground I think it's allowed.

[galaxy]

Trixie wrote those touching words :

SF3aviatrix Sep 14 2005

Introduce yourself to the purser and ask to meet the crew either before or after the flight and see what that gets you. It's definately not a problem in the U.S., so I wonder why the Brits are even more uptight? It's an airline decision, not airport, so you really need to talk to the crew. Two weeks ago I had the cutest little girl come up, on the ground of course. I even let her sit in the seat and check stuff out. You just can't take that away from those kids....

http://www.flightlevel350.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4229

[bluebird121]

I was fortunate to be allowed to have a quick peep in the cockpit, but that was over a year ago, and only when I asked the cabin crew if I could have a look in the cockpit on the flight from Glasgow to Las Palmas. It was allowed to look , but only after the passengers had alighted. The Captain and the flight crew were very polite even though they had paperwork to fill in. So I never waited long. I wish I could have sat in the jump seat.. One of my life's ambitions is to sit in a jump seat all the way through a flight , but 9/11 put paid to that..The simple answer is .......You are not allowed in the cockpit, unless you ask the cabin crew nicely, and only after the passengers have disembarked.

[nws2002]

Like everyone else has said you will not be allowed on the flight deck of an airliner during flight, unless your an airline employee or an FAA inspector.

You might try contacting a corporate flight department, they fly under Part 91 or Part 135 regs. I doubt you'll have much luck, but it's worth a shot. Try contacting the FBO's at your local airport and see what they say.

[Sean]

When flying from Nice (France) to Copenhagen (Denmark), my friend's seat was covered in vomit, so he got to sit in the jump seat all the way.

The pilots told him that if the destination would've been somewhere like e.g. London or any other major city where terrorist attacks have been going on lately (like Madrid etc.), then he would not be able to sit in the cockpit.

(I know the OP asked for information on this matter in the US, but I thought this was interesting enough to share)

Oh and btw, without the intention of going off topic, could someone tell me if the same rules apply for flights outside the US? I guess they do?

[AirRabbit]

When flying from Nice (France) to Copenhagen (Denmark), my friend's seat was covered in vomit, so he got to sit in the jump seat all the way.
The pilots told him that if the destination would've been somewhere like e.g. London or any other major city where terrorist attacks have been going on lately (like Madrid etc.), then he would not be able to sit in the cockpit.
(I know the OP asked for information on this matter in the US, but I thought this was interesting enough to share)
Oh and btw, without the intention of going off topic, could someone tell me if the same rules apply for flights outside the US? I guess they do?

Well, in the US, the practice is generally to clean up the vomit in the seat, disinfect the area, and thorougly dry the seat - or exchange the seat cushions - before asking a passenger to sit in that seat for the flight. And, that's true whether the flight is US domestic or departing the US for any foreign destination.

PS - what airline would have the bal...er, nerve... to ask a paying passenger to occupy a seat that had been uh...christened with someone else's slightly-used lunch?

[Sean]

Well, in the US, the practice is generally to clean up the vomit in the seat, disinfect the area, and thorougly dry the seat - or exchange the seat cushions - before asking a passenger to sit in that seat for the flight.

Naturally, this would be standard procedure in Europe as well (not to mention probably anywhere in the world), though sometimes planes are not scheduled to be on the ground long enough for cleaning, and changing a whole seat cushion could take quite a while if I am not mistaken. I assume that my friend was allowed in the cockpit to avoid a long wait for the passengers. But then again, as I said, they would not have let him if the destination would have been another major city where terrorist attacks have been going on lately like e.g London and Madrid.

Perhaps this is why standard procedure in the US is to change to cushion no matter if it would take a while - simply because the US itself has been a target of terrorist attacks lately.

Cheers!



Oh and btw, I just realise that my question to my last post was a bit unclear and could easily be misunderstood. I asked:

"could someone tell me if the same rules apply for flights outside the US? I guess they do?"

By this I was referring to the general rule of letting a passenger sit in the cockpit during flight, not to what happened in my little story! Anyway I guess they do..

thanks!

[AirRabbit]

Naturally, this would be standard procedure in Europe as well (not to mention probably anywhere in the world), though sometimes planes are not scheduled to be on the ground long enough for cleaning, and changing a whole seat cushion could take quite a while if I am not mistaken. I assume that my friend was allowed in the cockpit to avoid a long wait for the passengers. But then again, as I said, they would not have let him if the destination would have been another major city where terrorist attacks have been going on lately like e.g London and Madrid.

Perhaps this is why standard procedure in the US is to change to cushion no matter if it would take a while - simply because the US itself has been a target of terrorist attacks lately.

Cheers!
Oh and btw, I just realise that my question to my last post was a bit unclear and could easily be misunderstood. I asked:

"could someone tell me if the same rules apply for flights outside the US? I guess they do?"

By this I was referring to the general rule of letting a passenger sit in the cockpit during flight, not to what happened in my little story! Anyway I guess they do..

thanks!

Ummm....sorry, I just cannot imagine any flight, cabin, ground, or service crew for any airline anywhere in the world who would be so concerned about an "on time" departure as to want to sit a paying passenger in, or, for the most part, even near (within smelling distance), such a soiled seat. Anyone having to endure the stench from such a soiled seat would generate a huge, negative passenger response. Seat cushions and seat backs, for the most part, are able to be changed in a matter of minutes. If the soiling was from something like coffee, tea, water, booze, etc., (i.e., no noticable stench) and there were no cushions or backs available from any source at that time - the most logical action I think that would be taken would be to block the seat - and go with one less passenger.

I certainly don't know your friend, but, on the surface, I'd take his story with a grain of salt. Most reputable airlines have very strict rules, and for the Captain to jeopardize his job to give a guy a ride in the jumpseat doesn't seem to be worth the potential cost - no matter the reason. My point is, unless the airline in question is operating with their head in the sand, I would think that there are very few (if any) that would let anyone into the cockpit at any time the airplane is moving under its own power - no matter where in the world they operate.

[bluebird121]

Air Rabbit is correct. No way would a passenger be allowed to sit in the cockpit during a flight.. sick or no sick. The Captain could never allow that. Just think how a terrorist could use that excuse to gain access to the cockpit. Easy or what!

[Sean]

Ummm....sorry, I just cannot imagine any flight, cabin, ground, or service crew for any airline anywhere in the world who would be so concerned about an "on time" departure as to want to sit a paying passenger in, or, for the most part, even near (within smelling distance), such a soiled seat. Anyone having to endure the stench from such a soiled seat would generate a huge, negative passenger response. Seat cushions and seat backs, for the most part, are able to be changed in a matter of minutes. If the soiling was from something like coffee, tea, water, booze, etc., (i.e., no noticable stench) and there were no cushions or backs available from any source at that time - the most logical action I think that would be taken would be to block the seat - and go with one less passenger.

I certainly don't know your friend, but, on the surface, I'd take his story with a grain of salt. Most reputable airlines have very strict rules, and for the Captain to jeopardize his job to give a guy a ride in the jumpseat doesn't seem to be worth the potential cost - no matter the reason. My point is, unless the airline in question is operating with their head in the sand, I would think that there are very few (if any) that would let anyone into the cockpit at any time the airplane is moving under its own power - no matter where in the world they operate.

Ehh... excuse me? You think I'm lying? I was on that flight myself, and believe me I was hella jealous of my friend who got to sit in the cockpit.. the pilot even ran after me and my friend on our way out of the plane with a poster my friend (who sat in the jumpseat) had forgotten when he left the cockpit.. This is absolutely true. If you are interested, the company we flew with was SAS (Scandinavian Airlines). And when they know the passenger is a young and innocent Norwegian student on his way back home from a school trip, why the hell would they be "risking" their lives by letting him sit in the cockpit? I mean, there was no need to sense any danger... of course there is a possibility that he is a terrorist or something, but as this chance is very slim if not nonexistent, why would they ruin his whole trip by leaving him alone behind when they can let him sit in the cockpit? they know he has no weapons anyway, and as he is just one guy vs two.. what could possibly happen?

Air Rabbit is correct. No way would a passenger be allowed to sit in the cockpit during a flight.. sick or no sick. The Captain could never allow that. Just think how a terrorist could use that excuse to gain access to the cockpit. Easy or what!

Yes. The seat of my friend who is a terrorist is accidentally puked on beforehand so that he can hijack the plane.

Oh lord, what a coincidence!

Give me a break guys.. and the story is true, I don't know why you think I would lie about such a thing.

[Kilrah]

Because it's unlawful...

Not saying it's false, but the pilot would risk losing his job for that... which I guess not many would do.

[27driver]

Ehh... excuse me? You think I'm lying? I was on that flight myself, and believe me I was hella jealous of my friend who got to sit in the cockpit.. the pilot even ran after me and my friend on our way out of the plane with a poster my friend (who sat in the jumpseat) had forgotten when he left the cockpit.. This is absolutely true. If you are interested, the company we flew with was SAS (Scandinavian Airlines). And when they know the passenger is a young and innocent Norwegian student on his way back home from a school trip, why the hell would they be "risking" their lives by letting him sit in the cockpit? I mean, there was no need to sense any danger... of course there is a possibility that he is a terrorist or something, but as this chance is very slim if not nonexistent, why would they ruin his whole trip by leaving him alone behind when they can let him sit in the cockpit? they know he has no weapons anyway, and as he is just one guy vs two.. what could possibly happen?
Yes. The seat of my friend who is a terrorist is accidentally puked on beforehand so that he can hijack the plane.

Oh lord, what a coincidence!

Give me a break guys.. and the story is true, I don't know why you think I would lie about such a thing.

Give you a break, huh? I'll give you a lesson.

The point that BB121 and Rabbit are correctly making is that it's not done. It's illegal...as in NOT legal. It doesn't matter how young, innocent, or Norwegian your friend is. It doesn't matter that he's not a terrorist or that there was just one of him. It certainly doesn't matter that the airplane is running late...let it be late. Let it sit there all day before I break the law and end up on the long end of the unemployment line. In fact, I'd put a passenger off the aircraft before he'll ride in the cockpit against the law...because one passenger being put off the aircraft is not a big deal...ruin your trip or not...I've done it more than a few times. I'm still flying because I did the right thing.

Aviation and airlines have rules. As pilots, flight crew, aircrew, ATC, ground personnel...we all follow those rules...to the letter, and to the law. In certain situations, those rules may be bent or broken...but those situations usually include the words "Declaring an Emergency" and involve a strict adherence to safety and the proper conclusion of the flight. A passenger seat with barf on it is not an emergency...even in France and Norway.

If SAS is breaking THAT rule, I wonder what other rules they may be breaking? I wonder if the JAA would be interested in talking to your friend about his experience...I know the FAA would certainly be interested if an airline that flies within the confines of US Airspace is breaking Federal Aviation Regulations in the interest of a expediency in regards to a barf covered seat. What regulations has SAS decided are important and which are not. I wonder who else they are letting into the cockpit...

When Air Rabbit and BB121 tell you something, they are usually correct. Hell, Rabbit has forgotten more about aviation that I'll ever learn...and I've been at this for a little while. Pay attention to him and you just might learn something...I always have.

[trijetflyermd11]

I can imagine that it happened in a similar manner as told by Sean. Over the years after 9/11 we all (crew, passengers and public) have been preconditioned with all the regulations and rules that come out almost on a monthly basis. As of end of March cargo airlines will no longer be allowed to take their family members along a flight (I´m not talking about in the cockpit....) Obviously somebody thought a disgruntled wife or a hormone crazed daughter or son might be considered a potential terrorist endangering the lives of the crew and people on the ground.....but it´s O.K.....afterall IN THE INTEREST OF OUR PERSONAL SAFETY...bla bla bla....

Cargo couriers or horse handlers ( who I´ve never seen before in my life) who have been security checked in some far away country supposedly are more trustworthy than my wife or sons....but it´s O.K.....afterall IN THE INTEREST OF OUR PERSONAL SAFETY...bla bla bla....

So my final thought is: Eventhough with current regulations and company policies the captain probably broke a rule or two. I can´t imagine the airline leaving the Puke on the seat and taking it along for the flight. What might have happened is that they tried to clean it up as much as possible but nothing is as lingering as the odor of fresh...
So the captain made a judgement call and decided to take the boy (who probably looks as threatening as Callou or Harry Potter) instead of leaving him behind or forcing him to sit on the hastily wiped seat (which I wouldn´t want to do). I hope in the not too distant future governments and agencies worldwide will give us crews and airline employees the ability back to make our own judgements and decisions...and maybe let that 98 year old blind lady in the wheelchair slide and not stripsearch her, just because her watch made the metal detector go off...
Then again: female check on lane 2 !! IN THE INTEREST OF OUR PERSONAL SAFETY...bla bla bla....

[Sean]

agree with trijet.

Rules are rules, but damn.. some exceptions should be made sometimes. Maybe it was wrong of the captian to let my friend sit in the cockpit, that's fine and probably correct.. what I reacted the most to though was that you did not believe me.. why the hell would I lie about such a thing?

heh

[morris542]

When flying from Nice (France) to Copenhagen (Denmark), my friend's seat was covered in vomit, so he got to sit in the jump seat all the way.

When was this exactly?

[bluebird121]

I never once said you were lying Sean. My concern was that the passenger was allowed in the jumpseat. if you make an exception for one person, then where does it stop.. I do understand where Trijet is coming from too. he is a pilot as is 27driver, and I am a mere passenger so what do I know about that side of things? I am just putting my opinion, and that is what a forum is for. We will not agree all the time with what is said and so it becomes a healthy debate as long as it does not get out of hand.

[tripleseven]

agree with trijet.

Rules are rules, but damn.. some exceptions should be made sometimes. Maybe it was wrong of the captian to let my friend sit in the cockpit, that's fine and probably correct.. what I reacted the most to though was that you did not believe me.. why the hell would I lie about such a thing?

heh

Hey Sean....


Noone was accusing you of lying my friend, they were just a little skeptical about the course of events and how your friend proclaimed them.

As a matter of fact, I'm a little skeptical...but I wasn't there.....