Cross Landing The Heavy Iron, Airbus jocks advice needed Options

[AirRabbit]

Awesome advice. I really messed up my last x-wind landing in Monterey, Ca. (I didn't break anything but my ego) but I need to get a little more aggressive with the controls once I am "in the moment" just before tires meet the runway. Great post and great responses so we can all learn...this is what flightlevel350 is all about to me!

Atta Girl, Becky! Remember ... YOU are flying the airplane ... not the other way around. And, thanks for the kind thoughts! Like you, I wouldln't be here if it wasn't fun!

[AirRabbit]

Airrabbit- thanks for that, it actually helped alot! I guess with some more practise I'll be able to master it (I wouldnt be allowed to solo in the winds I had yesterday anyway). Is the slip method still good though? I've heard lots of good things about that, and, like I said, I always used to do it that way--I know it looks like I'm looking for a "yes c150, thats still a good way, keep on doing it your way, its good" but now I'm asking because want to end up with the best techniques I can, to be the safest pilot I can be.

Thanks again. I love knowing this forum when I have questions like this

You are very welcome, my friend. Of course, the slip method is still just as good as it ever was. But, like your instructor said, slipping your airplane down final approach "increases the drag," it "isn't the proper way to do it," and it also is a bit awkward for passengers in your airplane - whether its a C150 or a B747. Watch the guys doing aircraft certification testing - especially with the drastic crosswinds they wind up dealing with - and pay particular attention to the method they use to fly final, flare, and touchdown. Work with your instructor. It sounds like he (or she?) knows what's going on and wants you to do the right thing.

[c150student]

Thanks again! Though this is my 7th instructor to date (the rest quit after being in the plane with me), its still difficult when techniques taught by previous instructors dont match with the new ones, and then its hard to decipher the best way of doing things.

Oh, and its a he. I'll be blessed if my next instructor is a she (with a few other criteria). Give me an extra incentive to fly the plane right!

[Fast Jet]

I have to say that after accumulating some 5000 landings in light training aircraft I have made my mind as to what works and what doesn't in a cross wind landing. But....

When it comes to flying the heavy rust buckets I am somewhat puzzled.
As everyone else, I have seen the test cams for crosswind certification of the B-777, those are some scary techniques being applied. I can only hope that this is done on purpose.
Now to the meat of the subject:
My understanding is that Airbus industries makes it a requirement that their aircraft be landed with a crab and a kick the nose straight on the flare and brace for impact. (Should I be wrong correct me promptly)
Why would that manufacturer of fine flying machines recommended this highly stressful method rather than the more gentle "wing low" method, which guarantees absolute control over the aircraft from touchdown and through the roll out.
Is it an engine ground clearance issue, is it something else, did I misunderstood things in the first place?

As I said firstly, I will not be convinced of one technique over the other, it is beyond late for this; but I am very curious as to why would this maker in particular would suggest this technique over another.

Ha! At last we disagree on something . . .

I personally don`t like nor see any future in the wing-down method. Air UK which is now called . . . KLM or something, used this method on their F27s and F50s - whether they do this on the F100 or whatever they are flying this decade, I am not sure.

I don`t like it because (in my mind at least) if the crosswind you are flying against suddenly dropped due to a hangar in the way, way over there on the airfield or other obstacle or undulating ground - then you are in a situation where the aircraft would slip or rather slide left (for a crosswind from the left) - see whadda mean?

The advantage of my `beloved` crab method is that 1. You are all straight and this would not happen and 2. One has the added advantage of a momentary, momentary slip to get you firmly on the ground - which is where you want to be in a crosswind. Plus, as you have applied in-to-wind aileron in order to keep the wing down (as you rollout/straighten up) - then you are already (on touchdown) in a situation where you have "into-wind" controls (which is want you want, as you well know). This will afford you with a nice roll on the runway and the ensuing taxy to slow down or stop will have all the flying controls nicely set up or near to. As, needless to say, trying to taxy without into-wind controls is a right loo-loo especilly something as light and unforgiving as a Grumman AA5A which has had me crawling around a taxiway in a strong crosswind even with into-wind controls, applying rudder AND differential braking hard , just to get the damn thing to turn a corner, not good. . . . but thats a different story. I really can`t understand why they manufactured such an unusable aircraft for crosswinds as the AA5A - once airborne though it is a bonza aeroplane - but not in my shopping cart. Give me a PA28/38 anytime. Or Cessna, or Partenavia, or . . . .

[Fast Jet]

Thanks again! Though this is my 7th instructor to date (the rest quit after being in the plane with me), its still difficult when techniques taught by previous instructors dont match with the new ones, and then its hard to decipher the best way of doing things.

Oh, and its a he. I'll be blessed if my next instructor is a she (with a few other criteria). Give me an extra incentive to fly the plane right!

Hey, if your instructors can`t handle you then, have a con-fab, maybe you are doing something they can`t handle. Or maybe you have had a continous string of DO DO (as in the bird) instructors.

If I may, all an instructor wants, is for you to fly so safely that it is virtually impossible for you to die or injure yourself or anyone else and - for you to be a great pilot. (The last bit is more on how you achieve the first bit, if you get my drift)

. . .and to drive the aeroplane skillfully . . and thats all there is to it.

. . .and to make you into a Commander . . .

. . .and do all your paperwork, pass all your exams and get better and better . . .

. . and be nice . . which you are. . .

. . and to stop getting lost . . .

. . .and to be cool and quiet . . . (actually, forget the "quiet" - have you ever been to a fighter pilot p--- up? in the pub . . seriously "un-quiet"!!

Female Instructors are a great creation. They just want the job done. They don`t give a monkies what you think of them. They would like to see a result. They don`t "judge" you and compare you to themselves. they are most forgiving if a stray word rocks the air as they do not imagine it is aimed at them.

Chaps on the other hand, mostly, have to have the core inside honoured and acknowledged, this works with coffees - like giving and ice cream to a baby. If you are in awe of one - then you have a diety on your side. If you rough him up the wrong way it could be delicate. With chaps there is coalition first, detente and lets get it on. some chaps are so great you would follow them through fire because - "those" are SO concentrating on getting the job done - and know they have such stature that they do not need to be defensive. Here you have a pragmatic person. Like the chick - Pragmatic.

If you show them (Chaps or Chappesses - that you REALLY want to be able to fly, more than anything else in the world, they will always meet you half way, unless you came to the club via the route past the stables and brought a load of manure with you on your shoe, LOL, there is always another way to skin a cat, to do something. You must press on. Maybe you need a harder instructor or a softer instructor - but find one who makes learning fun, who causes you to learn as opposed to just teaching you.

A good instructor can teach a King or a Serf.

Some students are a dream to train - others are hard work.

Being a student pilot is either great fun or a f--g nightmare, or simply just, ok, depending on the day.

Its all a big psychological game of finding a slot, getting into it and becoming a Chrysilis (spelling)
- you have to become one of these before you can fly like a butterfly or even an eagle.

If you want this, and are determined and can afford the training and your performance is s--t, then there is work to be done. Avoid all those who negate the situation with no light at the end of the tunnel.

Unless, it is OBVIOUSLY, OBVIOUSLY not for you.

Comparisons. this is a good trick. once upon a time yours truly just could not get the circuit (pattern) tidy.
In this pattern I could not get the perfection required - there IS a certain level of perfection, for a good landing is the result of a good approach. yup.

So, one day we went off to fly the navigation route from hell. It was extremely hot +100deg F minimum, and there was this poxy haze making nav very difficult. Not only but also, on arriving at Dest, I was landing, the instructor took the aircraft and raised the nose from whatever attitude it was in and with a cool blip on the stall warner touched down. We were landing West in the afternoon in the Haze - baaad news!

The return journey was equally `dolci` in the sense it was hot and one could not see jack diddly poop.

However - the circuit at our base aerodrome was as welcoming as Big Momma and Apple Pie and I entered the circuit and greased it on. Although really hacked off, irritable and soaked, but soaked, in sweat.

Moral? If you are having a hard time not getting it when you know you should have it by now, then try something most arduous and your insurmountable task will seem like a walk in the park in comparison to what you have just put yourself through.