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 Passenger Shot By Air Marshal |
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 Dec 7 2005, 10:17 PM
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Cessna 152 Member
Group: Members
Posts: 24
Joined: 10-August 05
From: In.
Member No.: 1,908
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Well, I feel sorry for his wife who had to see it....but that's about it.
According to the news she pleaded with the air marshals that her husband did not take his medication.
I get sick and tired of medication or the lack of, being used as a defense.
I'm trying not to judge anyone, but,....to run away from the gate after air marshals have told you to get on the ground and then act like you're reaching for something in your bag, STUPID !!!!!!!!!
Becky_KSTS :
If your friend is telling you she knows what flights the air marshals are on then she is giving away CLASSIFIED information.
Sky Marshalls are undercover and the flights they are on is a closely guarded secret.
If your friend DOES have this information and she is "spilling the beans", then she is in jeopardy of losing her job.
The below link may have some helpful info on the subject.
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/arc...ives/003973.php
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Dec 8 2005, 01:23 AM
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Space Shuttle Member
Group: Full Access Members
Posts: 706
Joined: 12-February 05
From: Fort Worth Texas
Member No.: 796
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QUOTE(chad72) If your friend is telling you she knows what flights the air marshals are on then she is giving away CLASSIFIED information.
Sky Marshalls are undercover and the flights they are on is a closely guarded secret.
If your friend DOES have this information and she is "spilling the beans", then she is in jeopardy of losing her job.
The below link may have some helpful info on the subject.
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/003973.phpThey arent undercover anymore 
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Dec 8 2005, 03:08 AM
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Cessna 152 Member
Group: Members
Posts: 46
Joined: 27-February 05
From: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Member No.: 905
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QUOTE This is absolutely ridiculous! Shooting him three times, when only one was necessary to be fatal. But why make a fatal shot??? Why not shoot him in the shoulder of the arm with which he was reaching in to the bag? I think it is a terrible policy to shoot someone, especially someone with a mental illness.
Condolences to his wife, and may he R.I.P, and may the marshalls responsible Burn in Hell
First off, in the heat of the moment you have to do things off of instinct, there is no time for second guessing, you make a decision and do it. It is well known that you DO NOT even joke about bombs or weapons on aircraft nowadays and lack of medicine is no excuse. If you don't have the medicine or if his wife knew he hadnt taken the medicine and might have a spell then she shouldn't let him get on the aircraft period.
Let's suppose he did have a bomb or detonator in the bag for a moment, and then the air marshalls keep giving him orders which he keeps ignoring and they don't shoot him, then the plane blows up and kills more people and then people bash them for not shooting.
Shooting him in the shoulder might not do enough to keep him from getting to the bag and when many lives are at stake you can't take any chances. People use mental illness as a way out or an excuse way too often and I for one am sick of it. Mentally ill people should not fly if they may do stupid things such as this, thats what asylums are for. Although I don't completely agree with having armed marshalls onboard aircraft, these guys did do the correct thing and won't burn in hell. What would you have done if you were in there situation NZ guy??
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Dec 8 2005, 05:33 AM
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Airbus 380 Member
Group: Full Access Members
Posts: 403
Joined: 21-March 05
From: KCCB
Member No.: 1,097
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QUOTE(Keen_NZ_Pilot_guy) This is absolutely ridiculous! Shooting him three times, when only one was necessary to be fatal. But why make a fatal shot??? Why not shoot him in the shoulder of the arm with which he was reaching in to the bag? I think it is a terrible policy to shoot someone, especially someone with a mental illness.
Condolences to his wife, and may he R.I.P, and may the marshalls responsible Burn in Hell
Let's break this down piece by piece...
Shoot him three times? I agree. Ridiculous. The man was threatening to blow up hundreds of people aboard an aircraft. Should have been four or five. Make sure he ain't reaching for ANYTHING.
Why make a fatal shot? See argument above.
Why not shoot him in the shoulder or the arm with which he was reaching in to the bag? See argument above. (Clearly you've never handled a fire arm. If you had, you'd know why they don't go shooting for limbs...)
A terrible policy to shoot someone, especially with a mental illness? You're right. The marshalls should most definetely have "tested the waters", to make sure he was really going to blow the plane full of people up. And by the way, the marshalls probably missed the briefing on passengers who forgot to take their medication that day. The next time the marshalls do "test the waters" to make sure a bomb is really present, and 375 people die, you can feel bad for that bomber too. He'll also be dead.
Condolences to his wife, and may he R.I.P, and may the marshalls responsible Burn in Hell? It's a sad thing that his wife had to watch him die. That point I will concede. However, no one made him act like a crazy person, no one made him skip his meds, and no one told him to run from the federal air marshalls pretending to have a bomb. That was his choice. And like I said before, would your sentiments be the same had he been found to have had a bomb? Or had be killed a few hundred people? If so, you are more disturbed than your original post has led me to believe. To curse the same people that are sworn to protect the safety of passengers, and perhaps more importantly us pilots, leads me to believe that you probably are not a pilot, and most certainly not a very responsible one.
Instances like this reaffirm my belief in the "guns in the cockpit" idea. The safety of hundreds can not, and should never be put in jeopardy because of the actions of a single nut job. I apologize for the expression of my personal beliefs in this post, but for someone to curse those men who risk their lives to protect pilots and passengers for doing their job and doing it well makes me almost as angry as those who criticise the armed forces while living happy and fat under the freedom and protection which they provide.
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Dec 8 2005, 03:12 PM
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Space Shuttle Member
Group: FL350 CREW
Posts: 3,048
Joined: 31-January 05
From: MZB345R@8DME
Member No.: 695
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Before he ran off the plane he "uttered threatening words that included a sentence to the effect that he had a bomb," said James E. Bauer, agent in charge of the Federal Air Marshal Service field office in Miami....
(Ok, what was it- exactly- that he did he say?)
No bomb was found, and federal officials later concluded there was no link to terrorism. Witnesses said his wife, Anne, frantically tried to explain he was bipolar, a mental illness also known as manic-depression, and was off his medication.
"She said it was her fault that he was bipolar," said Mike Deshears, a Flight 924 passenger. "He was sick and she had convinced him to get on the plane."......
Several Colombian journalists were aboard the plane making a trip to Orlando, including journalist Gerardo Chavez of the newspaper El Tiempo, who recounted how the shooting occurred in an article published Thursday.
"It all began when the passengers were nearly finished boarding. There were about two people left who hadn't boarded yet. The man (Alpizar) was around the second-to-the-last passenger who had passed by my side. I was in the seats at the rear, and suddenly he passed by and pushed the flight attendant and left shouting like a madman, and he went to the front door" of the plane, Chavez was quoted as saying.
"A lady followed him, shouting: 'He's ill, he's ill!"' Chavez recalled. "Then there was some noise outside. They said: 'Get down on the floor!' And everybody threw themselves under the seats. When they had the situation under control, they told us to sit up again."....
Alpizar, who worked in the paint department of a home supply store, was returning from a missionary trip in Ecuador, according to a neighbor who was watching his ranch-style house in the Orlando suburb of Maitland.
"We're all still in shock," said his sister-in-law, Kelley Buechner, in a telephone interview from her home in Milwaukee. "We're just speechless.".....
Lucy Argote, 15, of Codazi, Colombia said Alpizar got up from his seat and ran toward the plane's door, with his wife yelling in Spanish.
"Officers told him to stop and he said no," the teen said. "He was running like a crazy man."
Another passenger, Mary Gardner, told WTVJ-TV in Miami that she also heard his wife call after him as he ran down the aisle.
"He was frantic, his arms flailing in the air," she said. She said a woman followed, shouting, "My husband! My husband!"
The Alpizars had been married for about two decades and met when Anne was an exchange student in Costa Rica, family members said. Rigoberto [was] a naturalized U.S. citizen.
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....USAirways737
