16x9 Video With Media Encoder Options

[Flmarc]

Hello,
i have a 16x9 DV-AVI video. When i use Windows Media Encoder, i always get the format 4:3 or 1:67, but i want 16x9! I also have used to use "Widescreen 1.78:1, but always i get the wrong format. What do i have to do, that i can make a 16x9 video in 720x432? I have read the tutorials, but nothing works.
Thanks for the help
Marc

[Kilrah]

Hi,

You most likely have a camcorder that makes video with anamorphic pixels. You should follow the second method under "widescreen video" in the encoding tutorial. The one after the first capture, starting by "Higher end camcorders offer another mode that will use a different aspect ratio for the individual image pixels."

[Flmarc]

Hi,
i almost have done this method!
1. I go to "video size" choose "Widescreen 1.78:1 (25%H)
2. Allow nonsquare pixel output
3. Pixel Aspect ratio: DV PAL 16:9 (16:11)

The result is an aspect ratio of: Cropped: 1. 67:1
Output: 2. 42:1
Change: 1. 45:1

The result in the video is, that it looks not good!

[Kilrah]

Hi,

When unsing this method, you should NOT set "Widescreen 1.78:1 (25%H)". This is only if your source video is letterboxed (black bars on top and bottom).

In summary:

If your video is letterboxed, do 1., but not 2. and 3.
If not, do 2. and 3., but not 1.

[Flmarc]

Hi,
but i will have my videos letterboxed, but with a resolution of 720x432.
Everytime, the format is wrong! Again, a 16x9 DV-AVI video with 720x576 in a 16x9 video with 720x432.
Thanks

[Kilrah]

OK... I think I start to understand what you want. So, your source is 720x576 16/9 anamorphic, and you want a 720x432 square pixel output, like those, with no black bars on either?

720x576 source
720x432 output

In this case, do none of those 3 steps above. Instead, on this dialog box, untick "same as video input", enter 720x432, start encoding and you're done (ignore the red circle, I just reused one of the screenshots of the tutorial).

But if the goal is to upload to FL350, the method described in the tutorial gives better results. Some other sites or portable video players might not play the video correctly though.

If I still haven't got it, please provide some samples to help me understand

[Flmarc]

Hi,
but i WANT black top and borders in video.
720x432, 16x9 Format. That's it.
I also have wrote you a PM.
Marc

[Kilrah]

Hi,

I've read your PM, and had a look at a couple of your videos (not many, I'm at military service right now and having to put up with an awfully slow connection). All the videos I've viewed have wrong aspect ratios, both the original files and when viewed on the FL350 viewer.

I think you must be confusing things a bit. Regarding the black bars, there are 3 ways to work with 16/9 video.

- You encode your video in a 16/9 ratio, with square pixels. For 720px wide, that's 405 pixels high. In practice codecs want numbers of pixels that are even, sometimes also dividable by 4, so we usually use 720x404. To do this, you do just like I mentioned earlier, by defining frame size in Windows media encoder. I actually don't know where you got the 720x432 number. By doing this, the video frame encoded in the video file is like this:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b105/Kilrah/720_404.jpg
There are no black bars in the video, but the player will add them if necessary.

- You encode the video in a 4/3 frame size (e.g 720x576), but with anamorphic pixels. The actual frame that is stored in the video file looks like this:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b105/Kil..._anamorphic.jpg
The image is "squished", but the file will store information saying that it should be played with the pixels "stretched" to a 4/3 ratio instead of being square (4/3 frame x 4/3 pixel = 16/9 image). So, the player will know it needs to stretch the image, and will play it back as 1024x576. This is what is used in the FL350 tutorial using the "allow nonsquare pixel output" and "widescreen DV" aspect ratio info. There are no black bars in the video frame either. This is preferable to the first method described above because intead of fixing width and cutting on height, you keep height and expand the width, thus keep more image data, and get better quality, which is why it was retained for the FL350 standard. This also matches how widescreen DV works, so there is no resizing taking place, avoiding some quality loss it would induce.

- You create a "letterboxed" video, meaning you add black bars to a 16/9 video frame to make a 4/3 image, and encode that. For example, you have a full 720x576 frame size, but only the 720x404 pixels of the first method actually contain the image:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b105/Kil...letterboxed.jpg
This was used for compatibility with 4/3 analog TVs, but has no reason to be anymore nowadays. It has many drawbacks - firstly, you store a 720x576 image when you only actually use 720x404, the rest being just black. The encoder wastes space on encoding the black bars and has a hard time with the border of the image which appears as a sharp transition. And mostly, it's wasting space on all widescreen displays, which we now find everywhere. As the frame is 4/3, the display will fit the video on the height, which includes the black bars that are hard-coded, and add black bars on the sides, resulting in something that looks like this, with wasted screen space:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b105/Kil..._widescreen.jpg
As far as I know, Windows media encoder can't do letterboxed video by itself. You need to do that in your editing software before you get to the encoding with WME.
So, one should really not encode in that format, so you surely do NOT want black bars in the video itself. You want the player to add them if necessary, which is done automatically with the other 2 methods.

For you, the simplest solution is the first one. If you manage to get the 2nd one to work by following the tutorial it's even better. But it's all simpler as it seems, I think you're searching too far.

If you're having more problems, if you could explain me more in detail what the exact problem is, maybe also send me bits of video (both original and encoded) as samples on my server here, with what settings you used it would help.

The still for the example is taken from video ID 11497.

[Flmarc]

I have sent you 2 examples of videos, hope that you can make the videos correctly, thanks.

[Kilrah]

OK, I received one video, "Unbenannt_0001.avi".

I just trimmed it a bit, then encoded it following exactly the tutorial, using the section about anamorphic source:

Higher end camcorders offer another mode that will use a different aspect ratio for the individual image pixels. That allows forming a widescreen image without losing resolution. The video will use the full frame size, but has to be horizontally stretched at display time to have the correct aspect ratio. The encoder must know that, otherwise the video will be displayed in 4:3. Here’s how to do that:

- On the "Compression" tab, click the "Edit" button. Check the "Allow nonsquare pixel output" box. Click "OK".

- On the "Video Size" tab, choose either "DV PAL 16:9" or "DV NTSC 16:9" depending on your video system.

And here's the perfectly fine result.

I don't get what the problem is...

For reference, here's the trimmed DV input.

[Flmarc]

Yes that's true, but normally i wanted the format 16x9, but now the format is 1.82:1
Is that format also possible for fl350?
I have sent you another video with the format 16x9 how i want it. But now i don't how how i made this video in this way.

[Kilrah]

Yes that's true, but normally i wanted the format 16x9, but now the format is 1.82:1

OK, so there's the problem. It's the system/language that is misleading. Widescreen DV, which is usually called "16x9 DV", does NOT actually have an exact 16x9 ratio, just like "4/3 PAL DV" actually is not 4/3 but 5/4... The actual ratios are even different for NTSC and PAL, even if they are called 4/3 and 16/9.

For widescreen PAL DV like in this case, we have a 720x576 frame size (5/4 or 1.25 ratio), and 16:11 or 1.45 pixel aspect ratio. Multiplied we get the 80/44, 20/11 or 1.82 ratio you calculated, and which is the correct one.

But in the end what is important is not to have the exact number, but that it looks correct to the viewer. In practice the eye doesn't notice slight aspect ratio errors, one doesn't really see the difference between 5/4 (1.25) and 4/3 (1.33). But 4/3 instead of 16/9 definitely looks awful. Just follow the tutorial and you'll have what you need.

I didn't receive the other video you mention.

[Flmarc]

Couldn't reach fl350.com, i have sent you the video now.

[Kilrah]

OK, seen it.

So, to me, some setting you have used or operation you did has cropped some of the top and bottom of the video before giving it its 720x432 size.

It's also suggested by the title being very close to the top and bottom, movie maker does not put them that close.

What exact settings / process did you use to encode that video? If it's the same as you described in post #3, which uses that step:

1. I go to "video size" choose "Widescreen 1.78:1 (25%H)

I told you earlier that you should NOT set any cropping.

[Flmarc]

I will upload all my new videos now in the 1.82:1 format! I think this might be the best. Thanks for your help

[Flmarc]

I now know, what i have to do in wme!
Thanks for your help
See my videos in the next days!