Engine Failure, alternate power source Options

[Aspiring Boeing ...]

When I read this the other day I just added a post, as above. But when the incident occured on thursday, I thought about this topic, isn't this really ironic?
I know I didn't post this just after it happened, but I am glad that I didn't. Because PM has summed it up better, with the word choice.

Regards,
Chris

[Fast Jet]

Lose both (all) engines on any big airplane and a SAFE landing is very much in doubt.

Well, Mr. Ranger, SIR, ah KNOW, YOU could land YOUR aircraft - with NO engines, whilst peeling an orange in your back pocket, with boxing gloves on the wrong hands. And, I aint being funny and I would not be nervous if I sat right seat from you - busy, oh yea, but cool as a cuke.

One of the first things I did with the A320, once I had got going and learned the aircraft, is analyse the non-normal op:

" DUAL ENGINE FAILURE"

This exercise is really one of numbers, its a numbers game.

Until that day arrives ( and Lordy, Lordy I sure hope it does not ) I am, and always will be, the winner, in this gameplan.

I saw an article in Flight International once, about a South American or Mexican B737 which had to land due to . . .no engines and s/he landed it in a field, alongside an embankment and everbody got off the aircraft and went home - and that was the end of that.

In the x-box, I mean the A320 - it goes something like this:

REMEMBER: BASE TO FINALS IS 1/2 D + 2500 FOR THE TURN
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
CONDITION
No gennys
RAT out
Alt Law
Auto Re-Light
Blue Hyd if no windmill
>>Manouvre with care<<
Capt ND ok, (new a/c only)
======================
ACTIONS
---------------
trim for 280
nav rose 80 nm
apt overlay (which is fine if VMC and overhead the airfield)
GO FOR APT> "Mayday x 3, callsign, position, intentions.
IF APU THEN TRK FPA 5 deg.
OPEN FL 00100
SEL SPEED GREEN DOT if no start
APU IF POSS
MANOUVRE WITH CARE

F/O MONITOR CAPT > then
ECAM
RE-START
280 KTS
APU < FL250
BLEED < FL200
RE-START
GREEN DOT
QRH
"CABIN CREW FORCED LANDING"
CAB ALT 20K
ECAM ONE SCREEN
IF NO FUEL, NO APU
((SUBTRACT 2500FT)) AND DOUBLE ALT
DOUBLE ALT = HALF D!
GO FOR:- RADAR VECTORS FOR A 5 deg APP
e.g. 24 MILES 12,000
8 MILES 4,000 etc.
<<1/2 D >>
Remember: FPA 5 DEG and DOUBLE ALT !!
ALT SET ABOVE CURRENT ALT
MID-DOWN-WIND 5 MILES GREEN DOT / 2500 LOSS IN TURN TO FINAL
*GRAVITY GEAR*
EG., IF 16,500 MID-DOWN-WIND THEN FINAL WILL BE 14,000 = 28d FINAL APPROACH
GLIDESLOPE CONFIG 1
"S" SPEED 180
SPEEDBRAKE IF FAST (Aircraft will tend to be fast rather than slow)
5 deg APP.
WHEN SURE OF GETTING IN, RE SELECT TO OR FLY TO A 3 deg APP
F/O CALLS ALT AGAINST DME PLUS ELEV TDZ
1,000 ft "CABIN CREW TAKE YOUR SEATS"
200 "BRACE BRACE"
YOU MAY NOT HAVE AUTOBRAKE, IF SO USE ALT BRAKING BUT WATCH FOR 1,000 PSI SO BRAKE GENTLY SO AS NOT TO LOCK THE WHEELS.
IF NO NOSEWHEEL STRG THEN USE RUDDER AND SHOULD BE ABLE TO TAXI CLEAR OF THE RUNWAY, AND ASK FOR A TOW IN - BY WHICH TIME WHO GIVES A MONKEYS ANYWAY, YOU ARE DOWN, WELL DONE.
"PASSENGERS PLEASE REMAIN SEATED"
"DOORS MANUAL" (CHECK ALT)

====you will ALWAYS land the aircraft.

[Fast Jet]

Yes that sounds accurate, The RAT only provides the electrical power, so the cabin pressure will decrease.
I didn't know APUs didnt pressurise the planes, they provide pneumatic air which pressurises the hydraulics and allows bleed gor engine start. They also provide the air for Air conditioning, they do on all airbuses and Boeings.

This is extrememl rare, just need someone who is told not to wait for a spare part, put on the wrong one and the problem has been created. You mentioned the volcano scenario. That has happened a few times before, as I mentioned earlier the Speedbird 9 incident.

Regards,
Chris

Speedbird 9 - thats Lon to Aus via Bangcock iinnit? (Or is it Speedcock to Bangbird. . ?, I can never get it right. . )

[tripleseven]

Ask Sully.

...................

[Fast Jet]

Ask Sully.

...................

Make no diff, the result would be the same - cool choice of Landing area though - he may have made the home of the Falcon - but only with few feet to spare and it would have been harder than squashy, guaranteed, water that was one lonnnnnnnnng runway (albeit wet and containing bridges) flipping over the bridge was cool.

[rerere]

If a 777 lost power to both engines, would the APU be capable of producing enough power to operate the flaps and other control surfaces ( at least minimally ) to aid the aircraft enough to land it safely?

I do know that on a 767, a small propeller comes down to give you a little control, though I don't know what it powers.

[ChillSpiller]

I do know that on a 767, a small propeller comes down to give you a little control, though I don't know what it powers.

What you mean is called the RAT (Ram Air Turbine). It produces hydraulic power via a pump . The hydraulic power is used for the controle and to produce electric power for the necessary systems.

[rerere]

What you mean is called the RAT (Ram Air Turbine). It produces hydraulic power via a pump . The hydraulic power is used for the controle and to produce electric power for the necessary systems.

Thanks!