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 Fastest Commercial Jetliner. |
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 Jul 15 2006, 10:58 AM
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QUOTE(yaarpanjabi @ Jul 15 2006, 03:24 PM) [snapback]93967[/snapback] Boeing 747, apparently the shape of the aircraft allows it to fly faster than any other civil airliner, as the drag is a lot less at high speeds (Mach 8.5 +) MACH 8.5, NOW THAT IS FAST!!!!  LOL, I guess you mean 0.85. That is fast though, I thought they cruised at more like around mach 0.55.
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Jul 15 2006, 11:32 AM
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The Rant Master
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QUOTE(iambenwyatt @ Jul 15 2006, 10:58 AM) [snapback]93969[/snapback] MACH 8.5, NOW THAT IS FAST!!!! LOL, I guess you mean 0.85. That is fast though, I thought they cruised at more like around mach 0.55. The 0.85 number for the B747 is correct; and the B777 does about the same; the B767 is not a lot slower, something like 0.82. When you get down to the B737 the cruise speed drops to something like 0.78. I think the A340 cruises at something just a bit slower than the B747 and B777; and is more like the 0.82 of the B767. The DC-9/MD-88/90 are very similar to the B737 - about 0.78. The 0.55 number is likely what you'll see out of the family of "Very Light Jets" coming down the pike. Oh, goody ... I can see it now ... "United 382, would you like a vector off course for spacing or would you prefer a 30-minute holding pattern? Traffic in front of you at your altitude is doing Mach point five two." Yikes! 
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Jul 15 2006, 01:48 PM
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The Rant Master
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QUOTE(bernoulli @ Jul 15 2006, 12:36 PM) [snapback]93983[/snapback] Remember when the Cessna Citation first came out? It was known as the "High Altitude Roadblock", or something to that effect.... No, I don't remember that ... but, then again, sometimes I don't remember what I had for breakfast. Anyway, the numbers of these VLJs that are planned to enter service is almost staggering! The price of the Eclipse is rumored to be just under $1.3 million. Here's what they're advertising regarding insurance requirements and rates (anyone can look in the FARs to see the "technical requirements" to fly PIC in one of these things, but, at least for now, the insurance is probably going to be the REAL requirements). Minimal: 500 hours total time; Private pilot with instrument and multi-engine ratings; Very limited instrument and multi-engine time; $46,000 annual premium provides full hull and $1M liability. Medium: 1,000 hours total time; Private pilot with instrument and multi-engine ratings; 100 instrument hours; 200 multi-engine hours; $40,000 annual premium provides full hull and $1M liability; $47,000 annual premium provides full hull and $5M liability. Experienced: 2,500 hours total time; Commercial pilot with instrument, multi-engine and jet type ratings; 100 instrument hours; 500 multi-engine hours; 100 turbine hours; $29,000 annual premium provides full hull and $1M liability; $38,000 annual premium provides full hull and $10M liability. Training is going to be under contract with United Airlines as a Training Provider and will use full Level D simulators - or at least that is the talk at the moment. I'm not sure how much time a pilot will get in the actual airplane. It is going to be ... interesting!
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Jul 15 2006, 03:07 PM
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Like mentioned above, I believe the 747 is the fastest airliner, with a maximum cruising speed of Mach .87 and an Mmo of .885.
For perspective:
The Citation X is the fastest civil airplane, with a Mmo of .92 and able to cruise at Mach .91.
The Gulfstream G-550 can cruise at up to Mach .87 and has an Mmo of .885. It can travel 6,000 NM at Mach .85 and 6,750 NM at Mach .80. Very impressive.
There were some good jokes running around when the Citation I first came out. It was slow compared to "real" jets of the time, like the Learjet. The Citation was nicknamed the Near-jet as a result. And why did it have a mesh metal screen in the tailpipe? For birdstrike protection from the rear.
As for the VLG's coming out, I had an opinion about that from day one. With them, if they become half as popular as predicted, we will all become 340kt airplanes as we get stuck behind them.
I think we will see a spate of crashes in them, too. A lot of non-professional pilots trading in their Cessna 414's and Piper Meridians for their first jet. The jet is easier to operate in some ways compared to, say, a C-414, but they come with their own other set of operating requirements and skills. There is going to be a "learning curve" attached to them.
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Jul 15 2006, 03:19 PM
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QUOTE(learguy @ Jul 15 2006, 12:07 PM) [snapback]94006[/snapback] As for the VLG's coming out, I had an opinion about that from day one. With them, if they become half as popular as predicted, we will all become 340kt airplanes as we get stuck behind them. From what i read about that subject, the faster jets like yours will get the higher cruising alt's and will still get preference when low and around airports. A VLJ will hardly ever cruise up where you guys do, from what i read they will be required to stick around slightly lower than commercial jets when they are in crowded jetways and such. So they will putz along at .70 mach or so while you guys go streaking but 5,000 feet above them. It shouldnt be a big deal. Also some of them arent as slow as you think. Check this page out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLJThat Javelin will give everyone a run for thier money. I want one so bad i can taste the fuel, course i need a few costly licenses first lol.
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Jul 15 2006, 03:34 PM
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The Rant Master
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Well, as you can obviously see, the Javelin, while a great looking airplane and clearly the fastest of the new crop of VLJs, it is a two-place machine and costs almost three times as much. Also, a golfing trip with your best bud will be complicated, as it looks like you could take your golf clubs OR your best bud.
As for the altitudes, if, for some reason (and speed capability IS a great reason) ATC wants to keep them at a lower altitude, there 'may' be some arguments, because the range on these little guys won't be as great as advertised at the lower altitudes - and they'll all be fully capable of operating up through FL350 (no pun intended). And, with the exception of the Javelin, they're all going to be at the 340-350 knots (0.55) range, just as Learguy indicated. Unfortunately, I also fear that he may be just as correct about the potential for accidents. That will depend on the quality of the traininng AND the background/experience of the guys with enough money to buy one of these toys, er ... airplanes.
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