How To Become A Pilot For Commercial Airlines Options

[matt_1mcneil]

Hi, I am only 15 right now but I was wondering what all it takes to become a commercial airline pilot?? I need to know almost everything I need to do? I am not talking about becoming one instantly or anything like that. In the long term I am very interested in becoming one and have be dreaming of becoming one ever since my first flight about a year ago from MS to CA. Anything will help. Thank you

[airlinepilote]

You must have very good points for your recently school.
And go look further for what interests you. To be a commercial pilot, then there are [many] school years for you to come

I'm 15 to.
I wanted to be a pilot since my first year of living.
But now, i know that i can't make it:
1) it's just TO much money to learn it.
2) for the schools in the netherlands you need VERY good points ( and i don't have them )
But i looked further and now i want to be an engineer on airplanes.

EDIT : Look here,
http://forum.flightlevel350.com/viewtopic.php?t=3296

[USMCmech]

There are several universities that offer flight training along with a college degree.

You can try to get trained through the military, however this is a 10 year commitment.

Most pilots earn their private licence, then their instrument rating, then their commercial license, then their flight instructor license. After all that they can start teaching and building flight time until they have enough hours to apply for the regional airlines.

Check out this site. www.jetcareers.com

[SF3aviatrix]

There are 4 ways in the USA:

1) A local Flight School or Flying Club*
2) An Aviation University
3) An Academy Program*
4) The Military*

* You need to get your 4 yr degree on your own apart from your flight training. A 2 yr will do for the regionals, but you will need the 4 yr later to be competative for the majors

Getting your licenses and rating via the local school or club will be around $40K, while the fancier academy programs will run $60k-80k. Schools like ERAU often top $100K after 4 years.

Unless you go via an academy program (see link in 2nd post) you will need about 1,000 hours of flight time with 100 of that being multi-engine hour to meet regional hiring minimums. Other than flight instruction, which is the most common route, some jobs that are timebuilding are banner towing, traffic watch, pipeline patrol, fish spotting, flying skydivers and ferry flying. See the sticky about how to build flight hours.

The time frame for completing all your flight training through the Commercial, CFI, Multi-engine & Instrument ratings can be 12-18 months of you apply yourself and make it a priority. A busy pilot can fly about 1,000 in a year but finding a job where you they use you that much will be a challenge. Expect 18-24 months after you somplete training to get that additional 750 flight hours. You could easily be applying to the regionals with your 1,000TT & a two year degree by age 20 or 21.

There are many other posts in this forum abut this subject, so do a search over the past few months. Jetcareers is great and there are also numerous links to that site in responses too.

[Archangel]

There are 4 ways in the USA:

1) A local Flight School or Flying Club*
2) An Aviation University
3) An Academy Program*
4) The Military*

* You need to get your 4 yr degree on your own apart from your flight training. A 2 yr will do for the regionals, but you will need the 4 yr later to be competative for the majors

if you go to the airforce academy that [gives you] your 4 year degree but getting in is harder than harvard.

[matt_1mcneil]

To airlinepilote I have very good grades so far and am willing to pay almost whatever it takes.
USMCmech you said something about several universities that offer flight training along with a college degree.
Can you explain?? Or do you know of any??
And do any of you know where I should start off because I heard that you could start flight training early of something like that??

[SF3aviatrix]

USMCmech you said something about several universities that offer flight training along with a college degree.  
Can you explain?? Or do you know of any??

There are many schools that offer flight training as part of their curriculum and you can graduate with a 2yr or 4 yr degree in Professional Aeronautics or Aeronautical Science or other non-engineering av degrees. In the U.S., a listing of these schools can be found at the University Aviation Association website. You can also order the Collegiate Aviation Guide via the UAA with information on colleges and universities that offer non-engineering aviation programs in the United States, Puerto Rico, Canada and Brazil.

Also as far as extra schooling and top grades, you don't really need that here in the USA for aspiring civilian aviators. The quality and amount of an applicants flight time is taken into consideration more than where a pilot went to school or the marks they received. Any Joe Pilot who got average grades, a degree and built up the minimum requirements to apply stands a chance at getting the job.

 
And do any of you know where I should start off because I heard that you could start flight training early of something like that??

You can start flight training whenever you like providing you have the funding. However, younger than almost 17 can be an unnecessary financial drain on funds that can later be applied towards advanced training to help you on the career path. (Read this thread on that subject.) Another good site for the background on pilot training and requirements is www.flightinfo.com

[matt_1mcneil]

I cant seem to get this site to pull up www.flightinfo.com is there any other site?? Also I would like you to look up this site http://www.flyftm.com/ and see what you think of it??

[SF3aviatrix]

... look up this site http://www.flyftm.com/ and see what you think of it??

Their CFI rates are average ($35/hr) but most of their rentals are not very affordable. Only their Cessna 152 at $65/hr is close to the hourly rate you want to pay as a primary student. Looks like the only other aircraft they have for PPL training is their Cessna 172SP, N295SP, and at $110/hr you will easily double the cost of your PPL by renting this aircraft. The average student actually completes their PPL in closer to 75 hours, not the FAA minimum of 40. Your PPL would cost you $8,250 in aircraft rental alone if done in that airplane!

I would advise against training for your PPL in anything that is so pricey. A 172 is a 172 no matter what year the aircraft was manufactured, so I suggest finding an older 172 for a cheaper rate or rent their C152 instead. Do not be lured into renting a new, fancy trainer when a cheaper alternative is available. They all look the same in your logbook. You will only deplete your money that could later be better spent on your commercial or instrument down the road.

[USMCmech]

USMCmech you said something about several universities that offer flight training along with a college degree.  
Can you explain?? Or do you know of any??

Embry Riddle university is the most famous, but their prices are WAY WAY too high for what you get.

University of North Dakota is another big aviation university, with much more reasonable rates. The downside is, it's in North Dakota.

There are many others out there.

As for starting your training. You can solo when you turn 16, and get your Private Pilots license when you turn 17. If you are 15 you can start any time.

It will probably take you little while to save up the money, but if you can save up $2,000 that will likely carry you through soloing. Then you can fly a little and work a little as you get ready for your checkride. Fly in the cheapest plane available (probably a Cessna 152) to make those dollars streach, and make sure you study so you are ready for each lesson. I earned mine while I was in High School. I worked hard to pay for it, but I paid for it all out of my own pocket.

Go to www.beapilot.com or www.airnav.com to find a local airport near you and go for a discovery flight.

You may be able to work something out with the flight school to earn some flying time in exchange for washing or fueling their airplanes. There is a kid your age doing exactly that at the school where I work.

Also, don't overlook learning to fly in gliders. You can solo at 14 and get your PPL at 16. They are a lot cheaper, and will make you a better pilot. Later you can add powered airplane to your license for much less money.

Here is my story http://www.jetcareers.com/persp_18.htm

[matt_1mcneil]

Ok so your saying I should go to my local flight school (www.flyftm.com) . Take a discovery flight. And if I like it then start the lessons.

[USMCmech]

That's where everbody starts.

I looked at their link. They seem like a good place. Stick to the cheap C-152 and you'll be fine.

[SF3aviatrix]

Ok so your saying I should go to my local flight school (www.flyftm.com) . Take a discovery flight. And if I like it then start the lessons.

You certainly could, if you can afford it. Just how are you planning on paying for this endeavor? Even the cheapest rental plus CFI at the school you posted will cost you $100/hr. I hope for your sake you have very wealthy parents!

At that age most parents probably won't commit grand sums of cash so their pre-teen can learn to fly unless they are well off. Good for you if they are. If they are willing to pay only a portion and you must pay the rest, you need to be budget conscious. Esp seeing as you probably won't have much of an income at that age.

If you are doing this for recreation, then the added cost of starting so early can be written off as entertainment value if you chose toss budget consciousness to the wind. However, if you are wanting to possibly pursue a career, then your money is better saved and spent on future flying when you can apply it to advanced ratings that will move you toward that goal.

Figuring the rate of $35/hr for a CFI and $65/hr for a C152 from their site: if you took an average flight of lesson 1.5 hours long, twice a month from age 15 to age 16, soloed, then flew alone each month for only an hour each month up until you turned 17, then did 5 flights with a CFI for checkride prep the total cost would be $5660 for CFI & aircraft rental.

If instead you studied hard for a few years, then flew rigorously and applied yourself for 2-3 months to take the flight test on your 17th birthday and did your PPL in the minimum time required* your costs for flight instruction & a/c rental alone would be $3,475.

*Of the FAA min of 40 hours (including 20 dual & 10 solo) lets say you fly 25 dual & 15 solo while accomplishing all the other requirements.

That's a difference of $2,185! If you just before your 17th birthday, should be able to get your license done for much less, in a more condensed amount of time rather than blowing money on flight training/time building with the added expense of a CFI that takes money out of your flight funds you could spend on your instrument, multi-engine or whatever. That extra $2,185 will cover the cost of a multi-engine rating or most if not all of your instrument rating.

Something to seriously consider, especially if you do not have very rich parents who are willing to spend thousands and thousands of dollars for you to do this.

Read this section about the different certificates & ratings plus costs:
http://www.flightinfo.com/learntofly.htm

If you want to get into aviation but don't have the money or a job at 15, you should consider joining the Civil Air Patrol. It will undebatably whet your appetite for flight (without pricey lessons) while helping you learn the basics. As a member you can participate in the Cadet Orientation Flight (COF) program designed to introduce youth, under 18 years old, to general aviation through hands-on orientation flights in single engine aircraft and gliders. The program will provide for the reimbursement of up to five powered syllabus rides in addition to the reimbursement of the five glider syllabus rides. National headquarters will provide reimbursement for the aircraft and its reasonable ferrying costs at the published CAPR 173-3 rates. Cadets may, at the orientation pilots discretion, operate the controls at any time after the orientation pilot has successfully demonstrated the procedures.

Here is an Acrobat file that details The Cadet Flight Syllabus

Civil Air Patrol (CAP) Cadet Program

The Mobile CAP Squadron contact information can be found here

[SF3aviatrix]

Another idea is to locate an Aviation Explorer Post near you. When I initially started flying, I was a member of a A.E. troop. I got substantially reduced flight lessons and took my ground school for only the cost of the books.

Aviation Exploring is a youth development program centered around aviation careers. Aviation Explorers might:
*Take orientation flights in military transports, helicopters, gliders, or single-engine general aviation aircraft
* Visit Air Force bases, aviation museums, air shows, or FAA facilities
* Learn to preflight an aircraft
* Take pilot training ground school classes

from http://www.learningforlife.org/exploring/a...tion/index.html

For information about starting an aviation Explorer post, or for the location of your nearest post, go to www.aviationexploring.org
Or contact:
Aviation Exploring Program
Learning for Life
P.O. Box 152079
Irving, Texas 75015-2079
972-580-2433

[matt_1mcneil]

ok, well if i started now wouldn't it build flight hours?? And also on that part where you said if I would study really hard for a few years and flew rigoursly. What all is there to study?? A certain book/s if so is there anywhere I can find these books. And what is ground school all about sorry for all the questions i know its a lot.

[SF3aviatrix]

ok, well if i started now wouldn't [i] build flight hours??

Every hour you fly builds time, however some hours are better spent than others. For example starting early and logging tons of hours of dual with a CFI beyond what is required are not as valuable as spending the money saved later on flying Pilot In Command/PIC on a high performance or multi-engine aircraft which will help you on your career path. Most students try to avoid spending extra money on repeat lessons due to the added expense. At airline interviews the quality of the flight time is more important than the quantity when comparing applicants. If each applicant has 1,000TT the one with the most PIC, multi-engine, IFR, turbine ect (quality flight hours) will get hired over another with 1,000 hours of lesser quality time.

What all is there to study??

For starters:
1. Airplanes and Aerodynamics
2. Airplane systems
3. Federal Aviation Regulations
4. Airports and airspace
5. Airplane performance
6. Aeromedical factors
7. Weather
8. Navigation
9. Cross-country flying

A certain book/s? If so, [where] can I find these books?

Pilot's Handbook Of Aeronautical Knowledge, The Flight Training Handbook & Private Pilot FAA Knowledge Test (aka the "written exam" questions) plus any syllabus you & your CFI choose to use. PPL syllabus or knowledge books can be had from any local pilot shop on your nearby airport, any number of online retailers (do a search for "pilot supplies") or even Ebay. Some of the most popular are:
http://www.kingschools.com/
http://www.gleim.com/aviation/
http://www.sportys.com/students/?trackingId=45
http://www.asa2fly.com/
http://www.jeppesen.com/
http://www.pilotstore.com/
http://www.pilotmall.com/

 
And what is ground school all about sorry for all the questions i know its a lot.

Ground school is used as the basis to teach you the general aeronautical knowledge you need as a pilot as well as what you need to know to pass the FAA written exam. Ground school can be done one on one with your CFI (getting charged their hourly rate of course) or via a course you attend over several weeks. There are even ground schools on DVD (see above links to buy) or online like www.firstflight.com.

I suggest getting a subscription to the magazine for student pilots "Flight Training". It will be of great help to you. There are also lots of good articles to read on their site, where you will find subscription info too-
http://flighttraining.aopa.org/

[USMCmech]

I usually suggest that young guys like yourself go ahead and get started.
Yes, you will repeat some lessons, but it won't make that much difference in the end. If you can work your butt off this summer and save up 2000$ then go for it.

You CAN earn enough from after school jobs to pay for this yourself. I did it, and you can too.

It will mean making many sacrifices, but If you want to make this a career you had better get used to giving up things in order to do what you love.


As far as studying goes, start reading everything you can get your hands on. Look on Ebay for books, go to the bookstore and read the magazines.

[matt_1mcneil]

I wanted to know what do you think of this one it like an all in one thing or something like that http://www.asa2fly.com/product1.asp?SID=1&...Product_ID=529&

[SF3aviatrix]

An all in one kit is great. All the study materials plus a complete flight bag with all the necessities you will need for training (except a headset of course). FYI- Quite often complete kits are for sale on Ebay for a fraction of the cost. (Check them for currency). Here is an example going for $12.50 that includes the King Schools PPL training videos (worth twice that price for the videos alone!) and another with the complete Jepp kit. There is also a Gleim kit up for auction at $32 presently, which retails for $219 new.

[matt_1mcneil]

Which is the best kit??